Are "male losers" doomed forever?

Bronson99

Well-known member
If one is a pathetic loser for a long time--I'll define it by not being college educated (with perhaps no ability to become so), ADDish, socially deficient, and either in crappy jobs or has no job--is it ever possible to lose the stigma? Is it ever possible for such an individual to find a woman interested beyond simple platonic interaction?

I was looking around Reddit the other day, and found a post from some guy (not myself) who was in that situation.. had many problems through no fault of his own, which led to his inability to make and accomplish goals.. and some of the responses were absolutely cruel. A woman on there replied "he'd be a permanent virgin.. no woman would want to have sex with him, knowing the biological underpinnings.. high likelihood of transferring the genetic deficiency.. and if he doesn't have a good job, he wouldn't be able to pay in case a child is accidentally conceived." That made me feel horrible... I guess, Reddit is not the place to go if anyone wants empathy. I've seen other responses to shy/anxious men there, who have romantic problems, one of which went "one option is to kill yourself, because no one cares about your Beta a$$ " WTF?

1. Is this woman's response indeed the way women think about the prospects of broken and/or disabled men? If so, then of course, it does not leave a warm and fuzzy feeling in my heart. That one response to some poor guy who wanted temporary inspiration caused me to "not feel so good", and that's an understatement.

2. Can a seriously broken, faulty, loser-ish guy make *slight improvements* in their life which might inspire some interest from the opposite sex.. or is this a "forever" label that instills permanent virginity, permanent lack of romantic relationships.. etc?

In any case, I don't think I'll be looking at Reddit anymore.. I've seen cruelty in there that doesn't compare to anything else I've seen on the Internet recently.
 

State_Of_Trance

Well-known member
I see no reason to believe that that woman's response reflects the majority of women. I, of course, have no knowledge of women. Still off the top of my head, no, I don't think that woman is representative of most women.

I tend to think that yes, a loser can, through determination, improve his or her self but there are limits. A few examples with make things clear.

Some of us are naturally good with math. Even if you're not a natural prodigy, however, you can in fact improve quite a bit. Probably not to human calculator levels, but certainly quite a bit. Some of us naturally have the musical mind of Mozart. While most of us are not in fact prodigies like he was, most of us can learn quite a bit even though we'll probably never be that good.

See the recurring theme? We don't start off with the same abilities / skills / etc., but usually progress is attainable within limits.

It's similar with social skills. Some people have a natural propensity towards that kind of thing and that's great. For people like me, however, progress is usually still possible.

Reality does impose limits. You'll never be a super saiyan for example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_En4RovedOA
Still, losers can change.
 

Kiwong

Well-known member
Anyone can make improvements at any age, but if you are only trying to make improvements to attract interest from the opposite sex then I reckon, yes you are probably unlikely to succeed at life.
 
Have you seen some older women? Yknow, the types that live for the game. They're hot shit in their twenties and as soon as they turn 35 nobody gives a shit anymore. Take solace in the fact that at least you can hold on to yourself and your interests even if you are alone. People like that will never truly find peace. **** em.
 
I don't even think one needn't be a ''male loser'' to find romantic success. Many people will judge on looks first, but after that (and in some occasions before that) people respond to character, that's the hook. Charm and genuine personality goes a long way.

That's not to say that how people mutually benefit in a relationship isn't important. That's very important, in fact. But what this means to each individual is different. So of which definitely fall within what a 'male loser' posses. It's clear to me that the women in the Reddit thread respond to more mainstream qualities of what it means to be 'successful'.

But like with pretty much all individuals- no matter how many singular examples there may be, they don't speak for the many. They may very well be the vocal minority for all we know. The same happens with gamers all the time. Per the internet, they seem like the worst people in the world. But meet them in person, and it becomes evident that those obnoxious diddlefricks that represent everyone are the very vocal minority.

Examples such as these are not gauges I'd advice anyone to go on. They're misleading.
 

S_Spartan

Well-known member
A man can be absolute "filth" but if he gives a woman tingles many times you will see all the woman's "standards" fly right out the window. I guess many times men do this with women as well, lose the standards when the woman excites them.

One problem that guys get confused about is in thinking that when a woman rattles off a list of standards that she has for a man that the man she is describing is a man who will excite her.

Many times this is not the case. In fact, I think many times a man who is (somewhat)opposite of what she says she wants will be the man who excites her but is not a man who is good for her for the long run.

It's like going into a restaurant and making a public display of how you are eating a healthy salad with low fat dressing and then getting a big piece of chocolate cake to go and eating it in the car in the dark. lol.

The salad is the thing that you SHOULD eat but the chocolate cake is the thing that EXCITES you!
 

Argentum

Well-known member
I only see this type of talk from men to men, but I wouldn't be surprised to meet some women who think that way too. It's not everyone and it's certainly not objective truth. Maybe it's insecurity, maybe it's laziness, but some people strengthen their position by telling themselves about all the people below them and how they're great just because they're not x, y, or z. They get to feel great without doing any real work to be great.

Any individual negative trait or flaw doesn't necessarily negate the capacity of that person to do good things or any positive traits they have. Being socially awkward doesn't mean someone can't make use of analytical skills or compassion, nor does it mean they'll always be the exact same degree of awkwardness. So it relies on people being willing to believe that other people are privy to some truth or ability to discern value that they're not, simply because they hate and are so unwilling to believe themselves when it's others vs them.

The one thing I think has no value is the Internet culture surrounding "forever alone" where people engage in mental masturbation and self-pity about how worthless they are because they're short, beta, or whatever the hot topic for everyone to bemoan is on any given day. They're a good example of how "misery loves company". If they can get everyone else on board with how pathetic and helpless they are, then responsibility is no longer theirs and they get to feel like martyrs for even living.
 

planemo

Well-known member
You're only as good as your circumstances allow you to be, so to judge everyone by one single standard is pointless. To one person I may be a loser but to someone else I may be a winner. It's better not to take seriously the opinions of people who have a limited understanding of life's diversity and its challenges. It's this trying to conform to a set standard which is beyond the reach of most people that brings about so much depression in the world.

In short, you're not a loser, even if you don't start conforming to other people's standards.
 

Bronson99

Well-known member
Anyone can make improvements at any age, but if you are only trying to make improvements to attract interest from the opposite sex then I reckon, yes you are probably unlikely to succeed at life.

Well yes I've been accused of this before, it's a reasonable accusation, I'll give you that.. but no that's not quite the modus operandi, even if it's part of the equation.

What's going on is I never used to care about having qualities that may attract interest from the opposite sex--it never even occurred to me, in fact, as I didn't mind so much being the shy, eccentric type with no real direction in life. There was of course an underlying unmet desire there, which I will admit caused much frustration, but I felt "let's put this off, I'll straighten myself out a bit eventually, I'm sure" and that didn't happen. Instead, some self-inflicted wounds (emotional) occurred which made me a less motivated person, and I was content to just be an escapist indefinitely, putting everything off with hardly a care.

Well, unfortunately, time passed and no progress occurred and I was still the same "L" word I was years ago, perhaps even worse, due to lack of progress. This "waking up" has happened too late, though.. that's what I'm dealing with now, and it's rough. I fear the stigma may not be overcome.. virtually everyone my age is far ahead.
 

Bronson99

Well-known member
Examples such as these are not gauges I'd advice anyone to go on. They're misleading.

That's what I thought.

Still, I worry about the subconscious effect. Even if most women would not vocalize the "men are like parking lots, all the good ones is taken, the rest is all handicapped" statement which I've heard once in a while.. I wonder if somehow a "loser" gives off signals that women can detect on a less conscious level.
 

Bronson99

Well-known member
See the recurring theme? We don't start off with the same abilities / skills / etc., but usually progress is attainable within limits.

It's similar with social skills. Some people have a natural propensity towards that kind of thing and that's great. For people like me, however, progress is usually still possible.

Reality does impose limits. You'll never be a super saiyan for example. Still, losers can change.

Social skills (and I suppose confidence, but that's intertwined) are the real deal-killer for me. I don't know how this can be overcome. Probably my social experience is about 5% of what most my age have, perhaps less.

On the topic of other skills, I have made significant progress with my "art", but I haven't figured out how to transfer this into a quality that would attract interest from, well, anyone. I suppose being able to make some income from this serious hobby would give me credibility, but I'm not at that level yet. What I have found so far is simply having "art" as a hobby does not seem to impress anyone, even if I let them see the work and I receive compliments that might be beyond politeness.. in general it does not confer added value, for me anyway. (That's however not anything to do with WHY I draw.. I do it because I love it.)
 

Kiwong

Well-known member
Well yes I've been accused of this before, it's a reasonable accusation, I'll give you that.. but no that's not quite the modus operandi, even if it's part of the equation.

What's going on is I never used to care about having qualities that may attract interest from the opposite sex--it never even occurred to me, in fact, as I didn't mind so much being the shy, eccentric type with no real direction in life. There was of course an underlying unmet desire there, which I will admit caused much frustration, but I felt "let's put this off, I'll straighten myself out a bit eventually, I'm sure" and that didn't happen. Instead, some self-inflicted wounds (emotional) occurred which made me a less motivated person, and I was content to just be an escapist indefinitely, putting everything off with hardly a care.

Well, unfortunately, time passed and no progress occurred and I was still the same "L" word I was years ago, perhaps even worse, due to lack of progress. This "waking up" has happened too late, though.. that's what I'm dealing with now, and it's rough. I fear the stigma may not be overcome.. virtually everyone my age is far ahead.

I'm not accusing you of anything, or labelling you, just responding to the example you gave. I used to care a lot about what the opposite sex thought of me back in my uni days. I wasted a lot of time on those thoughts when I could've been enjoying living. I like to create things because it brings me joy, if someone else likes what I have created that's a bonus.
 
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Odo

Banned
Yes, mean people exist... and some of them go on the internet.

I have a sneaking suspicion that if it was a guy saying it, you'd simply write him off as a ****... but since it's a woman saying it, it has now become a reflection of women as a whole.

My advice would be to stop looking to internet bullies for dating tips.
 

State_Of_Trance

Well-known member
Social skills (and I suppose confidence, but that's intertwined) are the real deal-killer for me. I don't know how this can be overcome. Probably my social experience is about 5% of what most my age have, perhaps less.

On the topic of other skills, I have made significant progress with my "art", but I haven't figured out how to transfer this into a quality that would attract interest from, well, anyone. I suppose being able to make some income from this serious hobby would give me credibility, but I'm not at that level yet. What I have found so far is simply having "art" as a hobby does not seem to impress anyone, even if I let them see the work and I receive compliments that might be beyond politeness.. in general it does not confer added value, for me anyway. (That's however not anything to do with WHY I draw.. I do it because I love it.)

Good to hear that you have something you're into for yourself.

I've found that badness in social skills is relative. I consider myself to be pretty lame, but I've come across some dudes well below me, in some ways at least. "You know everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects."

I'm curious about just how bad your social skills really are. If you don't mind my prying, would you mind giving some examples?

I'll start! 22 years old. About to graduate college. Never made a single college friend. A few "friends" from childhood but I don't really communicate with them at all. No girlfriend ever. Every once in a while I say something dumb enough to get it permanently etched in my memory. I never really "go out." A lot of TvTropes, Steam, Netflix, etc.

List some good things about yourself as well! For my case, I work hard. Grades are fine. I read a lot of old books. I'm thoughtful even though it's hard to see from the outside.

Let's go down the rabbit hole. See where it takes us.
 

iheart

Member
Interesting. I actually seek out men with SA or at least someone who is very introverted. Let me tell you, that is no easy task! Do guys with SA assume a woman with SA might be undesirable, incompatible?

From my observation, it seems like guys with SA have better luck than women when it comes to finding a partner. Generally, women are more willing to overlook shortcomings than men.

I think I blew my chances with a fellow social phobe years ago. My last boyfriend was very extroverted and never accepted my SA as legit. I learned from that difficult experience to stick with my own kind. But finding them is almost impossible for obvious reasons. Frustrating.
 

Megaten

Well-known member
Let me tell you, that is no easy task! Do guys with SA assume a woman with SA might be undesirable, incompatible?

I dont think its so much an SA guy rejecting you as opposed to us rejecting ourselves before we get out of the gate. Even if you came straight out and told a guy with those problems that you were interested, they might flee in fear of "screwing things up". I've done this tons of times and it left me with quite a bit of shame Ive yet to get over.
 

Metal_isthe_Answer

Well-known member
I see no reason to believe that that woman's response reflects the majority of women. I, of course, have no knowledge of women. Still off the top of my head, no, I don't think that woman is representative of most women.

I tend to think that yes, a loser can, through determination, improve his or her self but there are limits. A few examples with make things clear.

Some of us are naturally good with math. Even if you're not a natural prodigy, however, you can in fact improve quite a bit. Probably not to human calculator levels, but certainly quite a bit. Some of us naturally have the musical mind of Mozart. While most of us are not in fact prodigies like he was, most of us can learn quite a bit even though we'll probably never be that good.

See the recurring theme? We don't start off with the same abilities / skills / etc., but usually progress is attainable within limits.

It's similar with social skills. Some people have a natural propensity towards that kind of thing and that's great. For people like me, however, progress is usually still possible.

Reality does impose limits. You'll never be a super saiyan for example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_En4RovedOA
Still, losers can change.
I loved that super saiyan line, can I use that in my signature?
 
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