Brexit - In or out?

What do you reckon? Should the UK Leave the European Union or remain? Anyone have any thoughts? I know this one's mainly for the Brits, but I'd be interested to hear all opinions, wherever you're from. Especially other Europeans. I'm finding it surprisingly hard to decide. I keep swinging back and forth. Here's where I'm currently at;

Pro's of Leaving

• Undemocratic nature of EU. UK would take back control of our own laws, including immigration controls.
  
• Europe is the only continent in the world that isn't experiencing economic growth. Many say it's a sinking ship.
  
• UK would be free to trade with entire world, with no more EU restrictions.
  
• The £10 billion yearly EU membership fee would be back in UK's pocket.

Con's of Leaving

• Very risky. Could cause economic disaster.
  
• UK would no longer feel united with Europe.
  
• We've had 70 years of relative peace in Europe, largely thanks to the EU. Leaving would jeopardise this.
  
• Leaving would also quite likely be followed by Scotland and Northern Ireland leaving the United Kingdom.
  
• UK would no longer have free access to the European Single Market; the largest market in the world.

I think that's kinda where I'm at, at the moment. Anyone else have anything to add? Which way are you leaning? Which issues do you think are most important?

i am not english nor european but I've got facebook freinds and family that are both and are posting extensively on both sides of the debate on facebook.

For me anything that wants to exclude people is wrong. And this whole brexit thing for me seem to be centred around dislike and exclusion and leaves a bad taste in my mouth

I don't live in the UK but my country is a member of The Commonwealth.
If I did live in England I would vote to exit the EU, mainly because of your first two points.

Hoppy said:

i am not english nor european but I've got facebook freinds and family that are both and are posting extensively on both sides of the debate on facebook.

For me anything that wants to exclude people is wrong. And this whole brexit thing for me seem to be centred around dislike and exclusion and leaves a bad taste in my mouth

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Yea it leaves a bad taste in my mouth too. Generally the idea of staying united is good, and separation is bad, and there seems to be this mildly xenophobic sense to the whole leave campaign.

But I'm not sure that's fair. Because, for instance, nobody would accuse Japan or New Zealand of being xenophobic for desiring to remain independent of China and Australia respectively.

And also, something else that leaves a bad taste in my mouth is the direction that the EU is heading in. They're moving closer and closer to a kind of super-state, like a United States of Europe, absorbing greater and greater power and control from the member states, but they're doing it totally undemocratically, without the consent of the people.

I'm inclined to think that this is the more important issue; the UK's right to govern its own affairs, but can't deny the prospect of possibly being a very unpopular nation in Europe and the world, for the next couple of decades is not very appealing!

Sorry, not being an european myself and due to my complete disinterest to politics and therefore lack of arguments I am going to sum up my thoughts in one sentence, just not to bore you guys to death.

Europe without the U.K. is like a sandwich without its bread.

So thats what this is about. Thanks for the Sparknotes version. My UK friends seem to want to stay.

Glued to skynews this morning. What an extraordinary turn of events.

I expected it would be a narrow vote to exit but I am surprised by some of the stats. Its usually the younger generation who vote for drastic change into the unknown not the older generation.

Mush said:

I suspect that for many of the older generation it wasn't a vote for change into the unknown but a vote to return to the past they once knew.

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Thats a bit mindblowing surely they couldn't think that was possible.

Mush said:

They're likely to be a bit depressed right now then as the UK has voted to leave the EU. If only you'd had 1,269,502 more UK friends of voting age we'd still be in. So you're partly to blame for all this.

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Ah dang it, I knew I should've accepted those friend requests D=

Mush said:

Well not literally but some older voters I've listened to who remember the days before Britain joined the European Union remember things as being better back then. Maybe they were, or maybe it's just a kind of golden-age thinking, I don't know.

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nostalgia surely.

I fear this result will cause some chaos. I expect both Scotland and Northern Ireland will be calling to stay in the EU. I just hope that the stability in Northern Ireland holds. I heard Gerry Adams on the news today already stirring shit ><

I voted out as I'm an old school soc ialist and found the EU undemocratic. What happened to Greece being a classic example.

The EU certainly has some problems but exiting seems like an unnecessarily drastic measure. I can't understand for the life of me how exiting the EU was ever even put forward as a viable solution. Its like saying my house needs some DIY and then knocking the whole thing down. I can't see this move being good for anyone

I couldn't exactly vote on the matter on account of not being a UK citizen, but it was my hope that they'd stay. I'm not too upset that the ultimate result went the other way, though.

There were more than enough reasons to leave, and I'm going to respect the outcome for that reason. But there's too much passionate gloom and doom on either side for me to currently make a unbiased deduction on what will be, so we'll have to see in due time as to how much it's going to affect either parties, and in what ways.

First, just to say I can’t believe how my pulse is racing and palms slightly sweaty, almost as much as in ‘real life', at the prospect of me being about to say something. How ridiculous is that?

Anyway, I digress already!

I don’t think you Remainers need to worry - there will surely be no Brexit. The online petition to force a second referendum (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215) now has 2.7 million signatures (at the time of writing) including 300,000 from outside the UK, so the EU establishment will do as it has done before - keep asking until it gets the right answer.

The count is increasing by about 400 per minute, even at this time of night (3am), which is quite interesting. At this rate it will exceed the 46 million registered electorate in under three months!

Looking at the petition map, it’s the university cities leading the way. If only every well-educated student and graduate currently wailing about the result had bothered to vote the first time round, that would have saved a lot of hassle and money, but I guess they know what’s best for us all.


Here are a few further thoughts from a knuckle-dragging English-native Brexit voter (male, aged 42, not university educated, but I am very SA-ful), so anyone likely to be offended, please skip the rest of my post.


Migrants are welcome to live here, that’s fine, but I don’t understand why we seem to be forced by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels, not only to accept all immigrants, including criminals and terrorists, but also to grant them priority access to council housing and other taxpayer-funded services.

Surely it’s not just a few of us uneducated old fogeys who feel as if the people who do the most wrong in this country ('home-grown’ criminals and foreign ones) are given the most rights, enforced by what seems to be an ever-expanding Human Rights industry based in Brussels?

I don’t understand the thinking of people from the media elite when I see them waving banners to demand more unchecked immigration, then sticking two fingers up to those who have to live with the consequences of directives imposed by Brussels. They (the elite) can then retreat to their mansions well away from the deprived areas which so concern them.

Who, I wonder, will foot the bill for us to accept migrants from Turkey, Albania, Ukraine and other nations queueing up to join the EU?

Why do we have to pay so much to the EU in order to receive some of it back, to spend how they see fit?

How much longer can the lid be kept on the debt problems in countries such as Greece and Italy?

All I can hope is that, once we’re pulled back from the brink, it acts as a wake-up call for some sort of EU reform, but I won’t be holding my breath (I’m sorry to tell you).

Rant over. If you got this far, thank you very much for your time!

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worrywort said:

No you can't vote again! lol!

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I would agree if the margin was not so narrow. But the margin by which the motion won was so slim, ~half of Britain doesn't want it. I recall a similar situation (similar with regard to narrow majorities) a few years ago when Ireland rejected the Lisbon treaty by 54.4 to 46.6% There was a second referendum. It went through the second time.

:thinking: I think that when a referendum has such far reaching implications as Brexit does, such a big decision needs a big majority to get behind it for things to run smoothly. If the 'remain' side had won by the same margin, I'd say the same thing. Surely such a narrow majority indicates a massive division. I think if people are that divided, the issue is with the question being asked.

This whole situation is like parents squabbling and then asking their kids to pick a side. It's not fair on the kids. When a relationship breaks down the healthy thing is to seek mediation. It shouldn't be a flat out choice of 'remain as is' or 'divorce'. There are efforts to renegotiate.

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This is so much more serious than worrying about who gets to say 'I told you so'.

It's not 20 years since the Good Friday agreement. People forget too easy the atrocities that went on in Northern Ireland and the decades of talks that went into establishing some kind of peace. And now this.

I really hope that Britain can get some decent leadership together to sort this out. The situation requires serious diplomacy and tact. It was utterly ludicrous to put this to a referendum how they did. Too many serious implications at home and abroad.