Do girls with SA not like guys with SA?

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Megaten

Well-known member
Blah blah blah. You assume because i know how life works that i have bitterness in my heart towards women? Are you ****ing serious right now? You'd be wrong actually. Just because i choose to face facts doesn't mean i'm going to turn into Elliot Rodgers. Thanks for the generalization though that people who actually look at things objectively are angry creeps. Maybe that's how you would turn out if you faced facts, but i'm not going to stop speaking the truth because you don't like it.

Hmm...well it can make a guy bitter then. Thinking "well all women are attracted to this, Im the polar opposite of this. My life will remain void of romantic love" will make even the best of guys angry. Not to be silly but its kinda like the Dark Side of the Force. You gotta avoid that type of thinking unless you have some crazy willpower. I personally was a pretty angry dude for most of my 20s and I think I scared off my fair share of women as a result.
 

S_Spartan

Well-known member
Once you understand that what women find attractive in men is not just some arbitrary desires that they all came to agree upon but rather "firmware" that is left over from millennia of adapting to a harsh world things start to make more sense.

What has ****ed us all up is the idealism of the last 40 years in the developed world with very "educated" people telling us over and over that men and women *should* be the same when down inside WE ARE NOT!!!

Do women generally like confidence in a man? Of course! Why? Because for thousands of years it meant her survival and the survival of her offspring to tie herself to a man(or a group of men) and she had better choose the strongest/most fit man to ensure she and her children are on the winning side!
In the modern world a woman doesn't really need a man/men like this much anymore but when some a-hole displays confidence over other males(other tribes) it still gets her juices flowing! Because the "firmware" is registering that this man is a good protector against the outside world.

Same goes for money. Most women can provide for themselves in the modern world, however their "firmware" still looks for a man with means(greater than hers) as this signals that he is a "provider" and this attracts them in a different way.

But it's all basic biology that goes back to ye olde "protector/provider".

None of this is inherently evil, just the way women adapted to survive.

What is a problem is that now with technology and resources being prevalent, men and women don't really need each other anymore for survival.

So this makes people follow their "tingles". Relationships and sex are more for entertainment now. Or to be more precise they are things that people do for SELF FULFILLMENT rather than for self preservation.

That makes a big difference as human biology simply has not caught up to the boom of technology especially from the last 100 years.
 

Zooman

Well-known member
Once you understand that what women find attractive in men is not just some arbitrary desires that they all came to agree upon but rather "firmware" that is left over from millennia of adapting to a harsh world things start to make more sense.

What has ****ed us all up is the idealism of the last 40 years in the developed world with very "educated" people telling us over and over that men and women *should* be the same when down inside WE ARE NOT!!!

Do women generally like confidence in a man? Of course! Why? Because for thousands of years it meant her survival and the survival of her offspring to tie herself to a man(or a group of men) and she had better choose the strongest/most fit man to ensure she and her children are on the winning side!
In the modern world a woman doesn't really need a man/men like this much anymore but when some a-hole displays confidence over other males(other tribes) it still gets her juices flowing! Because the "firmware" is registering that this man is a good protector against the outside world.

Same goes for money. Most women can provide for themselves in the modern world, however their "firmware" still looks for a man with means(greater than hers) as this signals that he is a "provider" and this attracts them in a different way.

But it's all basic biology that goes back to ye olde "protector/provider".

None of this is inherently evil, just the way women adapted to survive.

What is a problem is that now with technology and resources being prevalent, men and women don't really need each other anymore for survival.

So this makes people follow their "tingles". Relationships and sex are more for entertainment now. Or to be more precise they are things that people do for SELF FULFILLMENT rather than for self preservation.

That makes a big difference as human biology simply has not caught up to the boom of technology especially from the last 100 years.
Finally someone understands!
 
I've always just assumed that when someone says 'girls are choosing the wrong guys' (or vice versa) it's because they're bitter about being rejected and want to tear down the competition as well as tearing down the person who rejected them.

These generalization threads aren't doing anyone any good and always turn into pity parties and echo chambers for frustrated singles who blame whatever they can for their own lack of dating success. If it wasn't SA, it would be something else. Common targets include feminism, modern society, the economy, education, liberals, etc.

SA makes it harder for sure but a negative attitude towards an entire gender is a MUCH bigger obstacle. If you sincerely believe this stuff then it either means that you're probably going to end up hiding your bitterness from every potential SO you come across (which they will probably pick up on eventually if not right away), giving up (which won't get you anywhere) or going into every potential dating situation with a bad attitude that will cause you to come off as troubled in a creepy way.

People in general don't really know what they want until they find it... but in the meantime they think they want what the media/culture tells them to want a lot more than they realize. However when it comes down to it they're still likely to give you a shot if you can catch their attention in ways they weren't expecting or if you can show that you're not just a guy (or girl) looking for a relationship but a real person who isn't too wrapped up in themselves, has done interesting things or at least seriously wants to do interesting things, and is actually fun to be around.
^ Well said.
Bitterness is very off-putting to both genders.
 

Odo

Banned
Ahhh the old 'biological programming' argument.

I've heard these narratives over and over in threads like these on this site and on other sites as well... they're almost always coupled with the insistence that some people simply don't understand biology or science or human history or whatever, and that if they actually understood this perfectly logical and rational theory, then they would logically, rationally accept that we're all f--ked.

This in turn leads to the condemnation of modern society as perverse or unnatural because thanks to all of this technology and feminism and social equality, guys aren't getting laid as much as they should.

Therefore, we need to go back to men being the providers and women being the submissive housewives so that the human race can continue to reproduce and won't go extinct because of no one being interested in having families anymore. This is usually not said outright (as doing so would undermine their 'rational' view due to the negative connotations of female repression), so the argument tends to stop at 'we're all f--ked' and people are free to come to the conclusion that we must regress on their own.

The argument always has this unnervingly regressive right-wing conservative flavor to it as well, which is why it tends to be socially awkward libertarians and 'red pilled' conspiracy theorists who espouse it.

But despite how it might make people feel to have a general 'answer' to why they're not getting laid, the human condition isn't permanently grounded in some ancient past and people are constantly evolving to adapt to any environment that the world can throw at them.

Anyone who really understands evolution knows that it is an ongoing process, not something that happened a long time ago and stopped, and as such attraction is a lot more complicated than 'all women want riches and confidence'. There is no valid reason to conclude that attraction is permanently tied to some specific set of qualities and that modern society is destroying us all by refusing to accommodate that.

It DOES make sense for people to ask themselves if what they think they want is really what's best for them-- because I do think that people are conditioned by the media/their friends/their parents to want things that might not be in their best interests, and some of those things are rooted in outdated stereotypes... but that's really not the same thing as attraction being hard-wired to our DNA.

And it really doesn't help to look at some rich guy, see that he has a wife or girlfriend, and then suddenly conclude that all women MUST want money. Or to look at some confident guy with a girlfriend and conclude that all women MUST want confidence. You need to consider that these people might just have other qualities that make them attractive. You also need to consider that just because it happens sometimes, not everyone would be perfectly content to be an accessory or trophy wife (or husband)... and that a lot of women out there are repulsed by the idea.

Usually people who use these types of examples are only looking to confirm their own narratives about these things-- which is why multiple comments on this thread where women declare that they are dating/have married/would love to meet an SA guy are being ignored by the people who 'know how the world works'. These people are so dedicated to their negative mindsets that they would even imply that women who say they would date someone with SA are just kidding themselves, because everyone knows they're slaves to their programming and when it comes down to it would easily reject the SA guy (which in their minds represents themselves) for some alpha male bully who won't respect them, but will shower them with meaningless baubles and tell them what they want to hear while cheating on them 24/7.

Sometimes the problem isn't SA, it's the narrative that SA (low self-esteem) produces in your mind-- ie: I'm not good enough, the world is a terrible place, people are cold unfeeling machines enslaved by their programming, there's nothing I or anyone else can do about it, it's hopeless, I'm unattractive, I'm doomed, etc. And it's even worse when you're so invested in this narrative that you shut out anything and everything that might challenge it, simply because you're afraid to feel good about yourself.

Anxiety is just anxiety and believe it or not people aren't as repulsed by it if you just admit it as opposed to trying to hide it or cover it up. Sometimes people don't understand/reject you because they don't know what's wrong with you, because you won't tell them... but if they knew, they might look at things differently, because at least then you're not pretending to be someone you're not or trying to hide things about yourself that you're ashamed of. If you trust that people will get it, sometimes (not always) they'll respect that a lot more than if you try to deceive them by pretending it isn't there.

So yes-- it's okay to be beta. There is a lot of love in this world for betas, because not everyone is interested in being this amazing person who does everything right, gets everything he/she wants and is always doing something interesting or exciting. Some people just want to relax and enjoy the scenery, win some and lose some, and carve out a niche that they can call their own. That sort of thing has its own appeal... and it's what I and a lot of other people have grown up with/would love to have for the rest of our lives.

What doesn't work is when you're a beta pretending to be an alpha because you think that's what other people want from you. That's when you end up looking ridiculous/putting people off... because you won't be able to sustain it. But just because you're not convincingly acting the part of the alpha, it doesn't mean you should give up on yourself simply because you're not someone else. Of course, that doesn't mean you can just 'be yourself' and expect to do well socially/romantically... there are plenty of other qualities that people won't warm up to-- but at least it's a good start.

Feel free to disagree, but I'm pretty certain that this is 'the way the world works'... or at least for me.

Once you understand that what women find attractive in men is not just some arbitrary desires that they all came to agree upon but rather "firmware" that is left over from millennia of adapting to a harsh world things start to make more sense.

What has ****ed us all up is the idealism of the last 40 years in the developed world with very "educated" people telling us over and over that men and women *should* be the same when down inside WE ARE NOT!!!

Do women generally like confidence in a man? Of course! Why? Because for thousands of years it meant her survival and the survival of her offspring to tie herself to a man(or a group of men) and she had better choose the strongest/most fit man to ensure she and her children are on the winning side!

In the modern world a woman doesn't really need a man/men like this much anymore but when some a-hole displays confidence over other males(other tribes) it still gets her juices flowing! Because the "firmware" is registering that this man is a good protector against the outside world.

Same goes for money. Most women can provide for themselves in the modern world, however their "firmware" still looks for a man with means(greater than hers) as this signals that he is a "provider" and this attracts them in a different way.

But it's all basic biology that goes back to ye olde "protector/provider".

None of this is inherently evil, just the way women adapted to survive.

What is a problem is that now with technology and resources being prevalent, men and women don't really need each other anymore for survival.

So this makes people follow their "tingles". Relationships and sex are more for entertainment now. Or to be more precise they are things that people do for SELF FULFILLMENT rather than for self preservation.

That makes a big difference as human biology simply has not caught up to the boom of technology especially from the last 100 years.
 
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Bronson99

Well-known member
In my experience, being yourself will only work if you have attractive traits. The idea is to fake it if you have to. Guys with lower confidence do not have much chances, if they show their true feelings. If they be themselves, then it does not work. And the dating world is full of fakings, hiding weaknesses, really. And I guess that is part of the process.

Being myself, with a few slight tweaks over time, would be the best I can do. Same with others here as well, I assume. Not many will be able to cultivate a confident personality that seems authentic.

And as I said before, your advice, at least, contrasts with what I've seen 99% of women say which is to "be yourself." Why is there such a strong difference between male and female advice on this?
 

Kiwong

Well-known member
I remember at work many years ago, I was introduced to new female employees. I was about 18 and shy as hell.

As one of the female employees who was doing the introducing walked away she said "we have a shy one." It was like OK we have a male that's a bit unique not in a bad way. I don't think they saw it as a bad thing at all.
 

Odo

Banned
Being myself, with a few slight tweaks over time, would be the best I can do. Same with others here as well, I assume. Not many will be able to cultivate a confident personality that seems authentic.

And as I said before, your advice, at least, contrasts with what I've seen 99% of women say which is to "be yourself." Why is there such a strong difference between male and female advice on this?

Because they are so sure they know what women want that they don't actually listen to them when they say 'I want this'.
 

Bronson99

Well-known member
Once you understand that what women find attractive in men is not just some arbitrary desires that they all came to agree upon but rather "firmware" that is left over from millennia of adapting to a harsh world things start to make more sense.

What has ****ed us all up is the idealism of the last 40 years in the developed world with very "educated" people telling us over and over that men and women *should* be the same when down inside WE ARE NOT!!!

Do women generally like confidence in a man? Of course! Why? Because for thousands of years it meant her survival and the survival of her offspring to tie herself to a man(or a group of men) and she had better choose the strongest/most fit man to ensure she and her children are on the winning side!
In the modern world a woman doesn't really need a man/men like this much anymore but when some a-hole displays confidence over other males(other tribes) it still gets her juices flowing! Because the "firmware" is registering that this man is a good protector against the outside world.

Same goes for money. Most women can provide for themselves in the modern world, however their "firmware" still looks for a man with means(greater than hers) as this signals that he is a "provider" and this attracts them in a different way.

But it's all basic biology that goes back to ye olde "protector/provider".

None of this is inherently evil, just the way women adapted to survive.

What is a problem is that now with technology and resources being prevalent, men and women don't really need each other anymore for survival.

So this makes people follow their "tingles". Relationships and sex are more for entertainment now. Or to be more precise they are things that people do for SELF FULFILLMENT rather than for self preservation.

That makes a big difference as human biology simply has not caught up to the boom of technology especially from the last 100 years.

You've just implied that most of us in this thread are undesirable and there's nothing we can do about it besides accept our fate; congratulations bro! :perfect:
 

SCP-087-1

Well-known member
This thread isn't going anywhere. How about I tell you all my secret to getting a girlfriend? I have done this before and can guarantee that it works.

1) Get a cardboard box and prop it up with a stick like this:
box-trap.png


2) Put some marshmallows under the box. Chicks love marshmallows. Cheesecake works too. Don't use chocolate. Although women like it, so does a lot of other random stuff.

3) Tie a string to the stick and hide nearby.

4 )When a woman comes to graze on the bait you pull the string.

And that's how you get a girlfriend. Like I said I've done this before and I've had a few girlfriends in the past
 
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Zooman

Well-known member
Ahhh the old 'biological programming' argument.

I've heard these narratives over and over in threads like these on this site and on other sites as well... they're almost always coupled with the insistence that some people simply don't understand biology or science or human history or whatever, and that if they actually understood this perfectly logical and rational theory, then they would logically, rationally accept that we're all f--ked.

This in turn leads to the condemnation of modern society as perverse or unnatural because thanks to all of this technology and feminism and social equality, guys aren't getting laid as much as they should.

Therefore, we need to go back to men being the providers and women being the submissive housewives so that the human race can continue to reproduce and won't go extinct because of no one being interested in having families anymore. This is usually not said outright (as doing so would undermine their 'rational' view due to the negative connotations of female repression), so the argument tends to stop at 'we're all f--ked' and people are free to come to the conclusion that we must regress on their own.

The argument always has this unnervingly regressive right-wing conservative flavor to it as well, which is why it tends to be socially awkward libertarians and 'red pilled' conspiracy theorists who espouse it.

But despite how it might make people feel to have a general 'answer' to why they're not getting laid, the human condition isn't permanently grounded in some ancient past and people are constantly evolving to adapt to any environment that the world can throw at them.

Anyone who really understands evolution knows that it is an ongoing process, not something that happened a long time ago and stopped, and as such attraction is a lot more complicated than 'all women want riches and confidence'. There is no valid reason to conclude that attraction is permanently tied to some specific set of qualities and that modern society is destroying us all by refusing to accommodate that.

It DOES make sense for people to ask themselves if what they think they want is really what's best for them-- because I do think that people are conditioned by the media/their friends/their parents to want things that might not be in their best interests, and some of those things are rooted in outdated stereotypes... but that's really not the same thing as attraction being hard-wired to our DNA.

And it really doesn't help to look at some rich guy, see that he has a wife or girlfriend, and then suddenly conclude that all women MUST want money. Or to look at some confident guy with a girlfriend and conclude that all women MUST want confidence. You need to consider that these people might just have other qualities that make them attractive. You also need to consider that just because it happens sometimes, not everyone would be perfectly content to be an accessory or trophy wife (or husband)... and that a lot of women out there are repulsed by the idea.

Usually people who use these types of examples are only looking to confirm their own narratives about these things-- which is why multiple comments on this thread where women declare that they are dating/have married/would love to meet an SA guy are being ignored by the people who 'know how the world works'. These people are so dedicated to their negative mindsets that they would even imply that women who say they would date someone with SA are just kidding themselves, because everyone knows they're slaves to their programming and when it comes down to it would easily reject the SA guy (which in their minds represents themselves) for some alpha male bully who won't respect them, but will shower them with meaningless baubles and tell them what they want to hear while cheating on them 24/7.

Sometimes the problem isn't SA, it's the narrative that SA (low self-esteem) produces in your mind-- ie: I'm not good enough, the world is a terrible place, people are cold unfeeling machines enslaved by their programming, there's nothing I or anyone else can do about it, it's hopeless, I'm unattractive, I'm doomed, etc. And it's even worse when you're so invested in this narrative that you shut out anything and everything that might challenge it, simply because you're afraid to feel good about yourself.

Anxiety is just anxiety and believe it or not people aren't as repulsed by it if you just admit it as opposed to trying to hide it or cover it up. Sometimes people don't understand/reject you because they don't know what's wrong with you, because you won't tell them... but if they knew, they might look at things differently, because at least then you're not pretending to be someone you're not or trying to hide things about yourself that you're ashamed of. If you trust that people will get it, sometimes (not always) they'll respect that a lot more than if you try to deceive them by pretending it isn't there.

So yes-- it's okay to be beta. There is a lot of love in this world for betas, because not everyone is interested in being this amazing person who does everything right, gets everything he/she wants and is always doing something interesting or exciting. Some people just want to relax and enjoy the scenery, win some and lose some, and carve out a niche that they can call their own. That sort of thing has its own appeal... and it's what I and a lot of other people have grown up with/would love to have for the rest of our lives.

What doesn't work is when you're a beta pretending to be an alpha because you think that's what other people want from you. That's when you end up looking ridiculous/putting people off... because you won't be able to sustain it. But just because you're not convincingly acting the part of the alpha, it doesn't mean you should give up on yourself simply because you're not someone else. Of course, that doesn't mean you can just 'be yourself' and expect to do well socially/romantically... there are plenty of other qualities that people won't warm up to-- but at least it's a good start.

Feel free to disagree, but I'm pretty certain that this is 'the way the world works'... or at least for me.

Obviously you don't understand how evolution works.
 

Zooman

Well-known member
This thread isn't going anywhere. How about I tell you all my secret to getting a girlfriend? I have done this before and can guarantee that it works.

1) Get a cardboard box and prop it up with a stick like this:
box-trap.png


2) Put some marshmallows under the box. Chicks love marshmallows. Cheesecake works too. Don't use chocolate. Although women like it, so does a lot of other random stuff.

3) Tie a string to the stick and hide nearby.

4 )When a woman comes to graze on the bait you pull the string.

And that's how you get a girlfriend. Like I said I've done this before and I've had a few girlfriends in the past

I wouldn't generalize a thread as a failure because some people don't understand.
 

Remus

Moderator
Staff member
Zooman, I amongst others here understand your point of view, I just disagree with it, just like others here. It's not because we lack the intelligence to understand.

I had a rough start to dating, first GF at 23, so a late bloomer, I'm not really a seeker of relationships, I rather stumble upon them, So I've had long periods of years between relationships. Don't see myself as an alpha or a beta or whatever. SA wasn't really a stumbling block as I'm not too bad one to one.
 
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SCP-087-1

Well-known member
Obviously you don't understand how evolution works.

Environment has a massive effect. That's why we can't just look at a persons genome and make predictions. We can just make vague statements about predispositions and say that certain people are at risk of certain diseases (Unless it's 100% penetrant. If you have that allele then you have the disease)

Also humans are self aware. Evolution has caused me to want to eat a lot of sugar by making it taste good but I don't eat many foods high in sugar because I know it's a bunch of unnecessary calories that I'd need to work off later. I don't just blindly follow instinct.

Another thing about evolution is that variation protects a species from extinction. Everybody is different. There is a normal but there's also a full spectrum of abnormal. I know that earlier in the thread I made some generalizations but I was just giving generalized advice which is that chicks like confidence. Fact is, people (Male and female) generally like confidence and will gravitate towards confident people (Don't mistake being an a**hole for confidence because they are completely different things) but like a lot of other people said, not everyone is the same.

I wouldn't generalize a thread as a failure because some people don't understand.

Sorry, man. I was just trying to get a laugh and I only said that first part so I could segue into my joke
 
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Ahhh the old 'biological programming' argument.....

....etc.

Good post. Agreed.

We were talking about the whole "women want money and confidence and men want looks and youth" thing (supposedly tied to how we evolved "back then") in my psychology class, and apparently it turns out that although this is propagated as truth again and again (I believed it was the case for a long time), several studies have shown there is no evidence that this is what men and women place highest on their list of what they're looking for from each other. And in fact, the things they place highest on their list are the same for both genders - things like faithfulness, caring, humor, etc. Men do want attractiveness but so do women, just as much. A lot of this myth has to do with our cultural norms and how we are told each gender is SUPPOSED to behave and what they should want.

I'd like to ask my professor what specific studies he was referring to, would be good to reference for future conversations ;)
 
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TheNomad

Well-known member
Because they are so sure they know what women want that they don't actually listen to them when they say 'I want this'.

Sorry, but after I have seen so many contradictions between what they say and what they do I began to think differently. It's not like I was born with this. Maybe I have met only weirdos but many say similar things. And this only applies to these kinds of topics obviously. If she says she likes chocolates then she likes it. And not just women, men may lie too, don't get me wrong. Anyway if you want to believe what the mouth says go ahead.

Being myself, with a few slight tweaks over time, would be the best I can do. Same with others here as well, I assume. Not many will be able to cultivate a confident personality that seems authentic.

And as I said before, your advice, at least, contrasts with what I've seen 99% of women say which is to "be yourself." Why is there such a strong difference between male and female advice on this?

It seems contradicting, but it is not. Like I said, it would work if you have attractive traits or not have the bad traits. Women say being yourself works, but they only see if a man having attractive traits is being himself. They do not, naturally, think about the men having low confidence and similar turn-offs. But of course this is a generalization, and the majority is the topic here.

You are right that it is hard. Only do not show your 'low-confident' side, I would say. It's not a complete faking.
 
I get what Odo is saying, but let's be real here. We've all met some stupid ****ing people that don't act much better than apes. Maybe it's just the area I live in, but there are a lot of them around. While a percentage of the population is evolving around an androgynous society, there are still a chunk of people living in the stone ages.

But yeah I agree that generalizing is annoying and anytime somebody generalizes something about me based on things I can't control it pisses me off.

Also, there are just some people that will be alone their entire lives until they die alone. People will end up this way and there may not be anything they can do about it.
 
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