Equal Rights

FriendlyShadow

Well-known member
I wanted to make this thread about opinions on Women and Men with equal rights and for women to actually stray away from their gender role stereotype. For example, I know that there's plenty of women out there who would propose to a guy first, approach a guy on a first date(maybe even offer to pay for dinner), hold the doors for a guy, buys flowers, ect. In my opinion, I have deep respect and admire women like this, I think because it shows that they're not letting society pressure them into becoming just a typical female back in the 19th century. By all means, I think if a woman wants to propose to a guy, buy him flowers, or anything then I say that they should be allowed to do so. I can now accept that times have changed and even gender roles are changing as well (most males are becoming more feminine, most females are becoming the dominant ones, ect). To be honest, I think most of these females in my opinion are very courageous to step up for a change and independent since they don't need men to take care of them 24/7. I someday wish I could be one of those woman out there like that, but I'd have to find away to get over my anxiety first. So, what do you guys think of equality and what is your opinion on girls taking more of independence?
 

S_Spartan

Well-known member
Nope, you cannot change thousands of years of biology that is still hardwired into every one of us.
Sure it all looks good on paper but at the end of the day there will ALWAYS be certain masculine traits that stir a women's attraction for a man to her deepest, primal core just as there will be feminine traits that do the same for men.
Attraction cannot be negotiated!
This does not mean that women can't be independent. I think that women's independence is a good thing for everybody. Even men, because now men are more free to live for themselves rather than a wife and family, just as women are.
But I do think we are a long ways off from a day when women do the approaching, buy flowers, or hold doors for men as many women still feel that receiving that chivalry is still their "right" for being born female. Plus many women still have that biological urge to "date up" which means that she wants a man who can display his power to her. So even holding a door for a man is going against her biological urges.
I think that what we are headed for in America is like what is going on in Japan where the sexes are becoming divided.
Marriage/birth rates will decline.
Relationships will be momentary, "mini relationships".
So to sum up, gender roles are changing on a societal level but biologically people still want the same old things.
In the near future I see women pretty much staying as they are now and more men dropping out of society, education, marriage and even employment. Articles are being written and graphs are being drawn about this very trend right now!
 

Mion

Member
I totally support your point of view! As I am really happy if somebody I like gives little presents to me, like flowers or chocolate, pays my dinner and so on, i of course also appreciate making this guy happy by doing the same things.
In former times most women didnt work and and had no income and so the men had to act like this to show the woman that he is a good man, who can take care of her needs. But this has changed, so i think it is fine if the dating scene also changes.
 

Megaten

Well-known member
Im totally behind this 10000000%. Society is headed in that general direction anyways as people are starting to come to terms with not pigeonholing people into roles based on their gender. It'll take some time, but I think we as a society will be happier for it. Because we'll be able to live how we want and not how our peers say we should.
 

Odo

Banned
Relationships are whatever the people involved in them want them to be. Everything else is propaganda.
 

DepravedFurball

Well-known member
Relationships are whatever the people involved in them want them to be. Everything else is propaganda.

/agree


When two people come together, there are tons of reasons not based on gender-specific stereotypes.

And look at same-sex pairings. It's not like you're always going to see two lesbians being effeminate and passive or two homosexuals being macho and drinking beer.


I'd say that everything boils down to individual personalities, and those aren't always defined by genders.

Holding the door open for someone? I call that 'not being a pr*ck. And if I had a girlfriend who seriously bought me flowers, I'd be damn shocked... but then I'd probably stare at them for an hour and a half out of sheer wonderment of the sentiment.

*shrugs*
 

PugofCrydee

You want to know how I got these scars?
Gender wars... great.

I don't agree with you saying more women are becoming the dominant ones.
I don't agree with you saying 'most males' are becoming more feminine.

I'm not sure where you come from, but where I live equal means just that. Equal.
Yet try being a male when your dealing with the family courts. Everything is stacked in the females favor.
When the man is told when and how often he can see his children, has to hand over half his paycheck to a mother who refuses to work and then blows most of that money on poker machines instead of buying stuff for the kids.. When the mother fills her childrens heads full of lies about the father so the kids don't want to go and see their dad.

When woman campaign (and rightly so) about domestic violence yet only include male against female violence, they refuse to see domestic violence is NOT gender based as women commit horrid violence against children and their partners too, yet their is no campaign calling for an end to violence altogether.

When women have massive funding campaigns for things like research into womens breast cancer, ovarian cancer etc, many males get involved for the cause. Yet There is hardly ANY women involved in campaigns for mens cancers such a prostrate.

Women here complain they aren't paid the same as men. But that simply isn't true. Men EARN more because they work longer hours, do the more dangerous jobs. 99.99% of workplace deaths in my country are male.

I'm certainly not a woman hater, but I get tired of the endless campaigns by women saying men have it all. We simply do not. It's a major reason why male suicide is at epidemic proportions in my country.

I'm all for equality, but when one gender asks for something based on their sex? thats actually gender discrimination towards that opposite sex, and thats what women are supposedly fighting against is it not? Imagine if men asked for jobs because they where male...
On the romantic side of things, I personally love it when a woman takes the lead ;)
 

FriendlyShadow

Well-known member
Thank you to most of the people who replied on here, though I'm not surprised some of you will disagree with my opinions. The reason I said that most men and women are switching their gender roles as being dominant and feminine is because I know that I see and read about a lot of men becoming more emotional, wearing feminine related clothes, ect. I didn't want to generalize that all women and men are like that but I know plenty of them in the world that are like that. I see women asking on sites if it's okay if they bought a guy flowers or would they think it's gay. I'm not saying its bad for men to have some responsibility in take care of their spouses for the most part, but I think in the time we are living in now, that I think women, if not at least some of them should also return the favor and not expect the guy to do everything. I'm just happy to see that at least some women out there do propose to a guy, buy him flowers, and so on because as I said, it's not that we are living in the past times anymore where women never did things like that than today.
 

Pacific_Loner

Pirate from the North Pole
I'm surprised that a thread about equal rights would focus so much on girls making the first move in dating context.

Though I think this is important to remember where we came from and not lose sight of it because there is still some inequalities, I think we have changed the society enough (in places like America and most European countries - and probably Oceania, I've never been there) where everyone have the opportunity to do whatever they want as long as they are able to shrug off people's judgement, and I think this is what matters the most.
 

Megaten

Well-known member
I'm certainly not a woman hater, but I get tired of the endless campaigns by women saying men have it all. We simply do not. It's a major reason why male suicide is at epidemic proportions in my country.

Men are more likely to kill themselves probably because we bottle our emotions so damn much. I can count on one hand the number of times Ive cried in front of people that were not my parents since I left home and thats probably not healthy. And thats a cultural issue that can be solved by changing how we perceive gender roles. If guys want more freedoms then we're going to have to fight for them just like others have. I dont see any men lining up in the streets talking about how women have them under their thumb. We cant get angry about the world not giving us something we dont ask for.
 

Mion

Member
Gender wars... great.

I don't agree with you saying more women are becoming the dominant ones.
I don't agree with you saying 'most males' are becoming more feminine.

I'm not sure where you come from, but where I live equal means just that. Equal.
Yet try being a male when your dealing with the family courts. Everything is stacked in the females favor.
When the man is told when and how often he can see his children, has to hand over half his paycheck to a mother who refuses to work and then blows most of that money on poker machines instead of buying stuff for the kids.. When the mother fills her childrens heads full of lies about the father so the kids don't want to go and see their dad.

When woman campaign (and rightly so) about domestic violence yet only include male against female violence, they refuse to see domestic violence is NOT gender based as women commit horrid violence against children and their partners too, yet their is no campaign calling for an end to violence altogether.

When women have massive funding campaigns for things like research into womens breast cancer, ovarian cancer etc, many males get involved for the cause. Yet There is hardly ANY women involved in campaigns for mens cancers such a prostrate.

Women here complain they aren't paid the same as men. But that simply isn't true. Men EARN more because they work longer hours, do the more dangerous jobs. 99.99% of workplace deaths in my country are male.

I'm certainly not a woman hater, but I get tired of the endless campaigns by women saying men have it all. We simply do not. It's a major reason why male suicide is at epidemic proportions in my country.

I'm all for equality, but when one gender asks for something based on their sex? thats actually gender discrimination towards that opposite sex, and thats what women are supposedly fighting against is it not? Imagine if men asked for jobs because they where male...
On the romantic side of things, I personally love it when a woman takes the lead ;)

"When one gender asks for something based on their sex?" - then this is a sign of inequality. I get your point, in Germany it is almost the same. We now also have the so called "Frauenquote", which means that in some high position companies MUST have women as managers. This is crap. I mean if somebody is successful than he or she will get a good job, no matter which gender.

I think this discussion is more about romantic relationships. There in my opinion should lay down all the gender klichees and just do whatever we want to without hurting somebody.
 

hoddesdon

Well-known member
women should draw the line at hitting men over the head with a club and dragging them off to their cave though
 

PugofCrydee

You want to know how I got these scars?
I get your point, in Germany it is almost the same. We now also have the so called "Frauenquote", which means that in some high position companies MUST have women as managers. This is crap. I mean if somebody is successful than he or she will get a good job, no matter which gender

Exactly. By having gender quotas (which by the way is slowly coming into effect in Australia) I believe we are committing gender discrimination which is what we are trying to stop. This time it is against males.

I actually find it demeaning towards women if you give her a job because 'we need to have a certain number of females' . I have much respect for those women who get their on merit.

But yes on the romance side, I think its great when women take the lead in being romantic. I'm a blokey bloke, but I'd find it really nice if a woman bought me a single rose on a date :)
 
[Don't read this in an angry voice or aimed at anyone in particular - they're global thoughts on the subject of equality in gender and origin]

Sometimes I feel in attempt to make world views less sexist and stereotypical, we often create new views that are equally so in different ways.

Equality isn't about men or women or how they change as a whole or in the majority, it's about allowing individualism to be whatever that may mean for the individual in question without being socially tied to the negligible qualities/differences in/between men and women.

I don't believe in strong men or women, I believe in strong people. Men and women are biologically different, so we'll never be one-hundred percent the same, however, if we want as much social equality as humanly possible, we'll have to start with the abandonment of segregating genders when it isn't necessary.


Though, little rant aside and back on-topic, I find it very admirable that you've found out who you want to be as a individual. Having a goal and roadmap is great. :thumbup:
 

PugofCrydee

You want to know how I got these scars?
I don't believe in strong men or women, I believe in strong people. Men and women are biologically different, so we'll never be one-hundred percent the same, however, if we want as much social equality as humanly possible, we'll have to start with the abandonment of segregating genders when it isn't necessary.

While mine definitely sounded like a rant, I agree with what you're saying.
Less focus on gender, more focus on individuality is key.
 

alwayssunnyinphiladelphia

Well-known member
Gender wars... great.

When woman campaign (and rightly so) about domestic violence yet only include male against female violence, they refuse to see domestic violence is NOT gender based as women commit horrid violence against children and their partners too, yet their is no campaign calling for an end to violence altogether.

Not trying to start an argument or anything but I think the focus is put on men who abuse women because a lot more woman (well in the uk anyway) are killed by male partners than men killed by women partners.
 

onehandclapping

Well-known member
I wanted to make this thread about opinions on Women and Men with equal rights and for women to actually stray away from their gender role stereotype. For example, I know that there's plenty of women out there who would propose to a guy first, approach a guy on a first date(maybe even offer to pay for dinner), hold the doors for a guy, buys flowers, ect. In my opinion, I have deep respect and admire women like this, I think because it shows that they're not letting society pressure them into becoming just a typical female back in the 19th century. By all means, I think if a woman wants to propose to a guy, buy him flowers, or anything then I say that they should be allowed to do so. I can now accept that times have changed and even gender roles are changing as well (most males are becoming more feminine, most females are becoming the dominant ones, ect). To be honest, I think most of these females in my opinion are very courageous to step up for a change and independent since they don't need men to take care of them 24/7. I someday wish I could be one of those woman out there like that, but I'd have to find away to get over my anxiety first. So, what do you guys think of equality and what is your opinion on girls taking more of independence?

things won't change for a long time I don't think.. we still condition children to associate themselves with masculine or feminine traits and encourage them to adopt to societies ideas regarding gender. once we get generations of kids growing up without these old ideas then it won't be harder for the population to challenge old thinking. its all very well having one or two people in a crowd pushing for change regarding gender roles and ideas about masculinity and femininity but if the general population isn't at ease with the proposition then people will be skeptical and stick to what they have always known.
 

FriendlyShadow

Well-known member
Please note to the people responding to this thread that this is only based on your opinions. I can see why there are disagreements spewing in this thread, but I have one thing to say. For example, if a man and women were to go on a date for dinner and she would offer to pay for it, then I think the man should be the gentleman and accept that. If a man can't accept that a woman can be independent on her own to take care of herself, then they shouldn't have been together in the first place. I think there are mostly close minded people out there that would probably say something like "Oh, I'd run away if a woman treated my like that.." I wished that there was term that most women out there who treat people with such courtesy can be defined as "gentlewoman". Although, I think I can agree with the person who said that life will never be equal
 
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