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Old 06-28-2016
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If you want to win a fight, seem weak when you are strong (so that people would underestimate you and not give all what they have), and strong when you are weak (so that people would be dissuaded to mess with you).
love your philosophy! It makes me smile because my pastor once told a story about 2 dogs he knew. The little one the size of a chihuahua vs. a big dog like a rottweiler and the little dog would snarl, growl and bark at the big dog to keep him away from his food or whatever. Even though the big dog could have killed the little one in one bite he was still intimidated...I believe it works the same way with humans sort of like Jungle said
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Old 06-29-2016
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I just realized not too long ago you might have gotten that phrase from Sun Tzu, that brilliant Chinese military tactician.
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Old 06-29-2016
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I just realized not too long ago you might have gotten that phrase from Sun Tzu, that brilliant Chinese military tactician.
You are pretty close ! Heard it from some martial artist called Jake Mace (chinese kungfu) when watching his youtube Channel.

I us this state of mind for pretty much everything.
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Old 06-30-2016
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I know when it comes to have interaction with girls all types I get super nervous, sweaty and red.I got it because myself meaning heart and mind don't want to let go what I used to be in the past. Have you seen a therapist?
What type of interactions? Regular or flirting? I figured that. Yes and I haven't talked about that yet.
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Old 06-30-2016
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Well I mean, how you feel about yourself will affect how you interact with people. And if you dislike that you have social anxiety (like most do) it'll probably make you feel worse about yourself. Its a weird cycle which is why its so hard to break. Thats why a lot of those psychologists try to get people to find their "core beliefs" which is usually the basis of how a person views the world. For me Ive been finding out that two of mine is the belief that acceptance from others = happiness and rejection from others = unhappiness. Which are tied to the belief that I am as a person unacceptable to 95% of the people I encounter. I know logically that that cant be true, most people I meet cant just dislike me if Ive not done anything to them, but after years of feeling that way and the occasional a-hole bully to reinforce that idea, its like a reflex thought. A more realistic way to think would probably be like "hey, some people wont like me. But there are some that will. Also whats important is that I like myself. Acceptance of self = happiness". But that crap takes practice, years of it probably. I heck I feel uncomfortable just telling you this because you might just say "well thats dumb" lol. You kinda gotta figure out exactly what it is you're thinking and figure out how to fight against it or your thoughts/feelings just steamroll you the second you encounter someone that could accept/reject you.
Who is was occasional a-hole bully to enforce that idea? It's not dumb honestly it makes sense. The problem is I have too low motivation to work on this but when I start to feel inferior I have to remind myself that I equal to that person again. I did this for six months before I think and it didn't help so I guess I will take years. Or if I somehow lessen my possible avpd maybe these thoughts of inferiority will go away. But idk how seeing other's flirt will be solved though unless I am just more social.
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Old 06-30-2016
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Yes. I know exactly how you feel because I've felt the same way before. I've seen other guys flirt with girls and seemingly talk to them with ease while I'm on the sidelines. I'm not jealous of them, but I just want to be that guy, and I never have.

My advice to you would be to not focus so much on girls right now. You said you don't talk to guys or girls so the best thing for you to do is to try talking more to anyone. Also, don't compare yourself to others. When you do that, you're guaranteed to find something that makes you feel inferior because everyone has good qualities about them.
Well I guess I feel inferior due to my possible avpd and because I can't do what they do right now.

But it is natural to focus on girls and inevitable. I don't really have motivation and I don't how to keep and start a conversation. Okay I will try that but I think it part of my possible avpd.
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Old 06-30-2016
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A few things about this.

Let me start by saying that this is in no way a criticism of Jungle, nor am I saying that this is poor advice. However, I am saying that this advice is difficult to follow and may not lead to the goals it is trying to accomplish.

I've done all of the steps that Jungle recommends and I've failed--at least in my view I failed--countless times. When "being yourself" and "going for it" doesn't work you feel like shit. You can try to congratulate yourself for trying, but that honestly won't mean much. If you're anything like me, you'll still feel like shit. On that note, it's pretty hard to approach a person rationally and logically and separate yourself from your emotions, when what you're doing--talking to and trying to connect to another person--is an exercise that is inherently emotional.

Furthermore, even if you're the most confident and self-assured person on the planet, you'll still face rejection. Let me be clear, I'm not saying you'll face rejection because I think you're a bad person or anything, but because statistically speaking you are bound to face rejection at some point, if it hasn't happened already. And when it does it will suck.

I do think that Jungle's advice is good in terms of working on self-confidence and starting relationships--friendship or otherwise--honestly. However, I don't think it really applies to "picking up girls" as Jungle implied at the start of his response.

I think the nature of your problem with speaking to women is a difficult one to give general advice for because there is no "general advice" for getting along with other people--men, women or otherwise.

Unless you're literally going to pick up women--in which case I recommend daily squat exercises (you'll want to lift with your legs) in addition to any upper-body work outs--I think you're out of luck, as no two people are the same. What works for me may not work for you. Furthermore, since we're adding other people to the mix (the men and women at your workplace) that further complicates things and makes applicable advice doubly difficult to give.

I think the best advice you've been given has been by DanielLewis. If you're struggling with making connections in general, you may want to start with lower stakes. Try to make friends with people before you shoot for marriage. And try not to compare yourself to other people. I say try, because it's difficult, if not impossible, not to.

I think that if you stop focusing on gendered relationships geared towards romance and broaden you scope to people with similar interests who you could have fun with, you'll feel a little better. If nothing else, if you make friends with people, they may have friends who are girls that they could introduce you to.

Sorry for how long that was, and I hope I didn't upset anyone.
I can't even make friends though but to be fair I am trying though.

Yea I starting to not care if it a boy or a girl so I can have higher chance of making friends but online though.

It's okay.
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Old 06-30-2016
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Who is was occasional a-hole bully to enforce that idea? It's not dumb honestly it makes sense. The problem is I have too low motivation to work on this but when I start to feel inferior I have to remind myself that I equal to that person again. I did this for six months before I think and it didn't help so I guess I will take years. Or if I somehow lessen my possible avpd maybe these thoughts of inferiority will go away. But idk how seeing other's flirt will be solved though unless I am just more social.
Like for instance, I was hanging out with this group I met on meetup.com that does volunteer work. And we were at someone's house watching the academy awards. For reasons I cant remember the topic of superheroes came up. And this older woman was like "Oh! If you wanna know about that kinda stuff, this guy is the comic book expert" in reference to me. I was about to speak and get involved in the conversation when this man interrupted and was like "Dont tell me youre actually into that stuff lol..." and it made me feel like I was a joke. I lost all desire to contribute to the conversation even though I had a perfect opportunity to do so. Stuff like that happens every once in a while when I socialize and it reinforces the idea that who I am and what I like isnt acceptable. Hell I had a grown *** man at work laugh when I told him my name because he thought I was joking, and then when he saw me scowling he was like "Oh...thats really your name". Its aholes like that, that have made it extremely difficult to come out of my shell and have confidence.
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Old 07-03-2016
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Like for instance, I was hanging out with this group I met on meetup.com that does volunteer work. And we were at someone's house watching the academy awards. For reasons I cant remember the topic of superheroes came up. And this older woman was like "Oh! If you wanna know about that kinda stuff, this guy is the comic book expert" in reference to me. I was about to speak and get involved in the conversation when this man interrupted and was like "Dont tell me youre actually into that stuff lol..." and it made me feel like I was a joke. I lost all desire to contribute to the conversation even though I had a perfect opportunity to do so. Stuff like that happens every once in a while when I socialize and it reinforces the idea that who I am and what I like isnt acceptable. Hell I had a grown *** man at work laugh when I told him my name because he thought I was joking, and then when he saw me scowling he was like "Oh...thats really your name". Its aholes like that, that have made it extremely difficult to come out of my shell and have confidence.
Thank you for responding first of all. You are brave to go meet up with people on meetup.com. I was thinking about joining that website but my lack of motivation, lack of assertiveness, and lack conversational skills holds me back. Plus do they have groups for social anxiety or avpd and is it free? How do you feel about the other things I said I my last post?
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Old 07-04-2016
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Thank you for responding first of all. You are brave to go meet up with people on meetup.com. I was thinking about joining that website but my lack of motivation, lack of assertiveness, and lack conversational skills holds me back. Plus do they have groups for social anxiety or avpd and is it free? How do you feel about the other things I said I my last post?
I would say more desperate than brave lol...if you wanted to know what motivates me, pure visceral desperation. But yeah I see what you mean, it'd be hard not to feel bad if you want to be a certain way, and you see others doing it with ease. I dont know how to flirt. That requires confidence and social finesse I try to go for the adorably awkward tactic. Are you in school or anything? It might be a place where you can try baby step socializing. Dont get the wrong idea about me, Im usually not saying a whole lot if Im with a group of people, if I say anything.
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Old 07-05-2016
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I would say more desperate than brave lol...if you wanted to know what motivates me, pure visceral desperation. But yeah I see what you mean, it'd be hard not to feel bad if you want to be a certain way, and you see others doing it with ease. I dont know how to flirt. That requires confidence and social finesse I try to go for the adorably awkward tactic. Are you in school or anything? It might be a place where you can try baby step socializing. Dont get the wrong idea about me, Im usually not saying a whole lot if Im with a group of people, if I say anything.
Yea i don't have anything that motivates except for certain things at cetain moments like desperation. But it is still brave to meet up with people you don't even know even if you don't say anything or little. So you do flirt then? No, I don't go to school or anything like that right now. I didn't really get a response (it's not a big deal), just interested in knowing if there are groups for avpd or social anxiety and is it free on meetup.com?
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Old 07-06-2016
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Yea i don't have anything that motivates except for certain things at cetain moments like desperation. But it is still brave to meet up with people you don't even know even if you don't say anything or little. So you do flirt then? No, I don't go to school or anything like that right now. I didn't really get a response (it's not a big deal), just interested in knowing if there are groups for avpd or social anxiety and is it free on meetup.com?
Oh sorry. The site is free to use but I've not seen groups like that before. It's different depending on where you live. The closest thing to that in my town is one for "highly sensitive persons" and that's more for people that at over stimulated rather than anxious. There may be some near you though. And no I don't flirt. I'll joke around but I have difficulty being romantic. On the bright side, some people are too flirtatious. They're all fluff and no substance.
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Old 07-07-2016
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Oh sorry. The site is free to use but I've not seen groups like that before. It's different depending on where you live. The closest thing to that in my town is one for "highly sensitive persons" and that's more for people that at over stimulated rather than anxious. There may be some near you though. And no I don't flirt. I'll joke around but I have difficulty being romantic. On the bright side, some people are too flirtatious. They're all fluff and no substance.
I have to signed up for meetup.com right? I remember I tried to flirt with this girl online and she didn't respond back to me so that discouraged me from flirting online anymore. So now I am just trying to make friends with either gender but it is hard these days when people don't respond back. Do you flirt online? Yea some people have no substance. How do you feel about me not going to school since you said do I attend school?
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Old 07-07-2016
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I have to signed up for meetup.com right? I remember I tried to flirt with this girl online and she didn't respond back to me so that discouraged me from flirting online anymore. So now I am just trying to make friends with either gender but it is hard these days when people don't respond back. Do you flirt online? Yea some people have no substance. How do you feel about me not going to school since you said do I attend school?
Yeah its not anything personal like Facebook but after you create a log in, any groups you click to join will send you an email when they're creating an event.

Ive never quite tried flirting online. At least I dont think I have And yeah no responses will happen lol. There was a girl I knew at my university I awkwardly tried to ask out through a text and things got real weird after that. Tbh I wish Id never bothered.

I dont really feel anything about whether youre in school or not, I only asked because I found it easier to strike up conversations with people since we were forced to work together. I think people do that through work also,like that guy you mentioned. Some people might find that harder though. At least with a complete stranger, if you make a fool of yourself, you'll probably never see them again haha. Which is why I said I wish Id not bothered with that girl I mentioned.
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Old 07-10-2016
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Yeah its not anything personal like Facebook but after you create a log in, any groups you click to join will send you an email when they're creating an event.

Ive never quite tried flirting online. At least I dont think I have And yeah no responses will happen lol. There was a girl I knew at my university I awkwardly tried to ask out through a text and things got real weird after that. Tbh I wish Id never bothered.

I dont really feel anything about whether youre in school or not, I only asked because I found it easier to strike up conversations with people since we were forced to work together. I think people do that through work also,like that guy you mentioned. Some people might find that harder though. At least with a complete stranger, if you make a fool of yourself, you'll probably never see them again haha. Which is why I said I wish Id not bothered with that girl I mentioned.
Is meetup.com free to use?

You should try it when your comfortable, at least you would of tried to talk to someone you liked. Yea but the conversations where going so good then bam no more responses. It's frustrating when trying to make friends. I'm wondering if I should message them saying "did you get my message or did I do something wrong?" for them to message me back. You knew her from university and got her phone number, that is a good step. You shouldn't feel about doing that, at least you tried.

Even when I was in university or work I didn't really make friends, so what do you suggest I do then?
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Old 07-10-2016
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Is meetup.com free to use?

You should try it when your comfortable, at least you would of tried to talk to someone you liked. Yea but the conversations where going so good then bam no more responses. It's frustrating when trying to make friends. I'm wondering if I should message them saying "did you get my message or did I do something wrong?" for them to message me back. You knew her from university and got her phone number, that is a good step. You shouldn't feel about doing that, at least you tried.

Even when I was in university or work I didn't really make friends, so what do you suggest I do then?
Yeah its free to use bud. Sorry if I miss your questions.

I wouldnt bother asking someone if they got your message or where things went wrong unless you two are already close friends. A lot of people will just stop talking if they dont feel like theres any chemistry or they lose interest. And its easier to do that online than in person. Building connections with anyone can be tricky, especially when youre not familiar with cultural/social norms. I actually didnt make as many real friends as you think. I had peers and that was mostly because we were forced to work together on projects. But see things got rough when I tried to "hang out" with people. One group of people in the chemistry club I tried to get with and asked them to let me know when they were hanging out. A lot of times people either forgot to tell me or just didnt want to and I didnt find out until I saw Facebook posts afterward. It caused me a lot of personal grief and made it difficult for me to get my assignments done. So I started seeing the campus therapist and pretty much gave up on being REAL friends with those people. Most of the friends i do have are from my childhood when my SA wasnt as bad. And the main reason I feel bad about that girl was because I was much older than them. Yeah she was an adult, but I was in my late twenties and I dont even think she was old enough to drink. After the rejection I felt kinda like a cradle robbing creep lol.

Im not really sure what advice to give to be honest. I think the harder you try the more difficult it becomes. People seem to get scared off easily. I think the key might be just not giving a damn and being as casual as possible. Sites like what I mentioned is just a good way to get out of the house and around like minded people as it can be hard for adults to meet people when they have no friends to begin with.
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Old 07-11-2016
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Yeah its free to use bud. Sorry if I miss your questions.

I wouldnt bother asking someone if they got your message or where things went wrong unless you two are already close friends. A lot of people will just stop talking if they dont feel like theres any chemistry or they lose interest. And its easier to do that online than in person. Building connections with anyone can be tricky, especially when youre not familiar with cultural/social norms. I actually didnt make as many real friends as you think. I had peers and that was mostly because we were forced to work together on projects. But see things got rough when I tried to "hang out" with people. One group of people in the chemistry club I tried to get with and asked them to let me know when they were hanging out. A lot of times people either forgot to tell me or just didnt want to and I didnt find out until I saw Facebook posts afterward. It caused me a lot of personal grief and made it difficult for me to get my assignments done. So I started seeing the campus therapist and pretty much gave up on being REAL friends with those people. Most of the friends i do have are from my childhood when my SA wasnt as bad. And the main reason I feel bad about that girl was because I was much older than them. Yeah she was an adult, but I was in my late twenties and I dont even think she was old enough to drink. After the rejection I felt kinda like a cradle robbing creep lol.

Im not really sure what advice to give to be honest. I think the harder you try the more difficult it becomes. People seem to get scared off easily. I think the key might be just not giving a damn and being as casual as possible. Sites like what I mentioned is just a good way to get out of the house and around like minded people as it can be hard for adults to meet people when they have no friends to begin with.
Oh, I might use that if I need it later then. It's okay.

But what if I want to continue talking to them? We are both American so idk if we have different cultural norms. I didn't say you made friends or is there a misunderstanding? That's sucks they abandoned you. Why would it be hard to finish your assignments because of grief? I had friends from school when my anxiety wasn't so bad but we fell out of contact unfortunately. Not judging, but why did you like her then? What is a "cradle robbing creep"?

I always thought it was the opposite that when you try more the easier it gets. Thanks for the advice. It seems like a good idea but I'm not comfortable socializing, I'm anxious, and not motivated to do that yet.
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Old 07-11-2016
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But what if I want to continue talking to them?
You can if you want to. Its not something Ill do at this point in life though as Im a little jaded. So it might not be best to take my advice on that in particular.

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I didn't say you made friends or is there a misunderstanding?
Because you asked me for my advice on making friends. I got the impression you figured I made tons of friends in college.

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That's sucks they abandoned you. Why would it be hard to finish your assignments because of grief?
Because I was depressed and lonely. Its kinda hard to focus on reading and assignments when you feel like your life isnt going anywhere.

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Not judging, but why did you like her then? What is a "cradle robbing creep"?
Because she was cute, funny and smart? Not everyone agrees with dating someone with an age gap though. My current girlfriend is 10 years younger than me, and my sister already voiced her displeasure of that. I also had girls on campus act real funny around me when they found out my age. Not that I havent tried to date women my age because I have. But like a lot of guys here Im not every experienced and tend to come off as immature for my age. My mother tells me frequently that I "cant handle" a woman my age lol...not sure what they expect me to do then. What I mean is that people have made me feel wrong for doing it.

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I always thought it was the opposite that when you try more the easier it gets. Thanks for the advice. It seems like a good idea but I'm not comfortable socializing, I'm anxious, and not motivated to do that yet.
Well I mean things can get easier but there's still speed bumbs. Im not nearly as bad at socializing as I was at 20. But there will be moments that can be rough because human beings are totally unpredictable. Some are sweet as angels and others are complete *******s. Which can make people with social phobia afraid to keep trying. That was a point that someone made in a thread about why some people dont recover or make progress, because they'll try, get embarrassed/ feelings hurt, then not try anymore. I didnt want to discourage you but I get the feeling i might have.
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Old 07-12-2016
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You can if you want to. Its not something Ill do at this point in life though as Im a little jaded. So it might not be best to take my advice on that in particular.
I'm just going to give it some time and if that person doesn't respond then I will sent that person a message.

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Because you asked me for my advice on making friends. I got the impression you figured I made tons of friends in college.
I think I asked you on what I do if I didn't go to school. Oh. Btw how do I make friends?

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Because I was depressed and lonely. Its kinda hard to focus on reading and assignments when you feel like your life isnt going anywhere.
Oh.

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Because she was cute, funny and smart? Not everyone agrees with dating someone with an age gap though. My current girlfriend is 10 years younger than me, and my sister already voiced her displeasure of that. I also had girls on campus act real funny around me when they found out my age. Not that I havent tried to date women my age because I have. But like a lot of guys here Im not every experienced and tend to come off as immature for my age. My mother tells me frequently that I "cant handle" a woman my age lol...not sure what they expect me to do then. What I mean is that people have made me feel wrong for doing it.
Oh, I see why you liked her then. So you date or like younger women because your not as experienced and tend to come off as immature (not judging, just curious)? How did you meet her if you were bad socializing then? Um I don't really agree with age gaps that are underage and above age (not saying you did that though). Wow, how old are you (if you don't mind me asking)? Girls on campus when you went to school? A cradle robbing creep means people made you feel wrong for dating younger?

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Well I mean things can get easier but there's still speed bumbs. Im not nearly as bad at socializing as I was at 20. But there will be moments that can be rough because human beings are totally unpredictable. Some are sweet as angels and others are complete *******s. Which can make people with social phobia afraid to keep trying. That was a point that someone made in a thread about why some people dont recover or make progress, because they'll try, get embarrassed/ feelings hurt, then not try anymore. I didnt want to discourage you but I get the feeling i might have.
Nah, you didn't discourage me.
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Old 07-13-2016
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I couldnt tell you how to make friends. I dont know/think theres a secret to it. It might just come down to being friendly and knowing how to relate to other people in conversation.

No I dont prefer any age groups. Im just saying that my family has made me feel bad about it, but seeing as how they havent been helpful they can kick rocks. "How did you meet her if you were bad socializing then?" She took the lead. Some will do that. Especially nowadays.
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