Gamers thread

Klonoa

Well-known member
I don't online much (I preffer single-player adventures), especially since my comp is mostly my working tool, all resources usually go to my adobe programs and my net is crap, but...

Eh, okay, might join.

Welp, in other news from my end...

A Link Between Worlds so far:

Got 8 hearts, one bottle, and a lot of equipment and a mineral. Finished the 3 main Hyrule dungeons, and just finished Skull Woods in Lorule. Halfway through Thives' Hideout.

So far, A Link Between Worlds is, indeed, the handheld Zelda the franchise seriously needed after the Oracles.

Minish Cap and the DS games were fine, but way too short. The return to the classic top-view formula with classic enemies is a welcome change...

Now, if they did a similar game, but with the open-world of the NES Zelda game, I'd be so happy.

Also, got Tales of Symphonia for the old neat 'Cube. And Star Fox Assault. And a bunch of games, like Mega Man Network Transmission, Mega Man Command Mission, The Legend of Spyro, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time... And more.

Whew, got a bunch of games to play, and I haven't even finished Tales of the Abyss 3D nor Kid Icarus Uprising. Or Metroid Prime 2.

.... Damn, now I feel overwhelmed.
 
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Steiner

Well-known member
Atm I play hearthstone sometimes. Interstellar Marines, Terraria.

LoL and Dota 2 not so much these days.
 
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Klonoa

Well-known member
I've wanted to ask this for a while, so better now than never:

Guys, what're your favorite video game genres and why?

I'm just curious about it.
 

JohnnAY

Well-known member
RPG and FPS for me. So I love games that are FPS but incorporate RPG elements.

My steam library is: L4D 1/2, Dead Island 1/2.
I have SC2 but haven't gotten HOTS yet.
Unfortunately those are the only multiplayer games I have :/
 

Klonoa

Well-known member
How do you guys handle First person view? DX

I had a super hard time getting used to it playing Metroid Prime and Red Steel 2, during the N64 days I avoided GoldenEye 007 and Turok because I felt dizzy playing... In games with jumping mechanics, I felt super dizzy and awkward, I've felt I turly needed to see my character to have a proper depth perception to make jumps, or the like... Which, indeed, was my huge problem with my first playthrough of Metroid Prime. So much falling... Eventually I got used to it, more or less, but I see people get on it so right away, I don't understand.

I absolutely love cartoon-styled adventure games, high fantasy with towns to visit, sidequests to do, and a whimsical feel of it... I love action JRPGs the most, like Boktai. I'm rather picky with turn-based RPGs...

It's a strange feel, I feel like I have to watch my character do tricks, and those tricks being actual product of my skill and no selection in a menu to feel like I'm the character, ever since Mega Man X and Zelda: Ocarina of Time....

... I'm weird, aren't I?
 

JohnnAY

Well-known member
No, I never understood the whole turn base combat either. It feels very uninvolved. I think JRPGs are the only games that have that mechanic. I guess it has an appeal of being like a chess match. I just never really got into it.

The only JRPG I really enjoyed was FF7 when I was a child. But other than that, I can't get over how feminine all their male characters look. Almost cringe worthy at times. I tried to play Lost Odyssey a while back and couldn't finish the game because I got sick at staring my male character's exposed back and belly button.

Oh yeaa, I agree with you. Those N64 FPS's were horrible for me also. But with the mouse and keyboard it feels much more intuitive. I can't wait till I can get my hands on an Oculus Rift - Goodbye outside world!
 

Klonoa

Well-known member
No, I never understood the whole turn base combat either. It feels very uninvolved. I think JRPGs are the only games that have that mechanic. I guess it has an appeal of being like a chess match. I just never really got into it.

The only JRPG I really enjoyed was FF7 when I was a child. But other than that, I can't get over how feminine all their male characters look. Almost cringe worthy at times. I tried to play Lost Odyssey a while back and couldn't finish the game because I got sick at staring my male character's exposed back and belly button.

Oh yeaa, I agree with you. Those N64 FPS's were horrible for me also. But with the mouse and keyboard it feels much more intuitive. I can't wait till I can get my hands on an Oculus Rift - Goodbye outside world!

Not really, the first version of D&D and other tabletop RPGs and even in videogame form of earlier WRPGs were also turn based... and even MORE complex than their japanese counterparts.

I tried to play one on Master System, a WRPG whose name I can't remember. It gave me a headache, it was super complex.

JRPGs aren't necessarily turn-based, plenty of them are free-combat style focusing mostly on the adventure, like Zelda (which is debatable, Link doesn't level up), Pandora's Tower, Tales of Whatever and much more. Thing is Final Fantasy became the "poster child" of JRPGs, and the earlier installments of FF up until... X, I think, were menu-browsing turns. Not so much the case anymore... For example, Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles, you is pure free combat, you just level up as you go and kill enemies and bosses. Hell, that game, the opening act is you free-falling several feet away from land, killing dragons with a GATTLING GUN... We can't deny that's awesome.

Although, I admit main characters in japanese RPGs got recently incresingly girly ever since Final Fantasy VII made it "cool". Before that, it was common see a youthful young man, or a "pretty boy" a la Legolas in JRPGs (OoT Link comes to mind), but it got ridiculous... Although I usually don't really mind much as long as the game is cool. Maybe it's a values dissonance? I know USA values physical external manliness over everything else, hence all those 'roid rage space marines in Xbox 360 games...

I also grew with oldschool anime during my childhood, I particularily loved Slayers and it's art style, that influenced my choice on games as well.

Slayers_0007.jpg

Truth to be told, despite the long hair, with the face shape, nose and smaller eyes you can notice Gourry is a dude, which can't be said on some JRPGs that try to get the FF audience...

Eh, maybe that's why I dig the style of Tales of Whatever games, it's cartoony and whimsical, but not girly and over-emotional.

EmilMartadcoupatedbymoimoietmoi.png


It's a good escape from reality...
 
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JohnnAY

Well-known member
Not really, the first version of D&D and other tabletop RPGs and even in videogame form of earlier WRPGs were also turn based... and even MORE complex than their japanese counterparts.

Oh I don't doubt you. You definitely have more gamer points than I do. I'm the Doom generation I suppose. I'm just assuming the reason for turn base gameplay was due to technological limitations at the time. With the advancements in computing technology, you'd think they would have done away with it.

I wasn't implying that turn base was all they had, but even games like Devil May Cry, I just never got into it. The story and cutscenes are just so over the top and cheesy. Every time you get into combat there's like a million colors flying at your face. They bombard you at every turn with the most ridiculous action scenes that after a while you kind of just grow numb it and the tension is lost.

Even gritty games like the latest Resident Evil have the character throwing flying roundhouse kicks at zombies like he had some MMA training before he became a cop. The apocalypse is upon them and I just can't help noticing that Leon's hair is always in pristine condition (a little hint of dirt or grime please!). I guess there are just too many things in Japanese games that take me out of the moment. I would equate it to being in a business meeting, and one of the guys has on an earring. It's like: REALLY? You douche.
[URL=http://s1304.photobucket.com/user/jawkneechew/media/Resident-Evil-6-Leon-leon-kennedy-32386389-640-576_zps56b0613a.jpg.html] [/URL]
^ Douchebag

Take something like Alan Wake for instance. No over the top karate chopping zombies in half, but a very simple gameplay mechanic. With just a pistol and a flashlight, they put you on the edge of your seat with every enemy encounter without losing the grandeur of a blockbuster game.

I very much subscribe to the idea that less is more. I think the Japanese culture tends to take a lot of things to the extreme. We all have our preferences I guess. I haven't played many of their games, perhaps you could recommend one to me?
 
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Klonoa

Well-known member
Due the relative backwardness of Mexico back in my childhood, I grew in an anachronism of 1985 to 1990 mixed up together, until globalization and the internet forced the country to catch up - which gave me a MAJOR culture clash at first, so I basically grew with the NES and SNES.

Well, Devil May Cry (pre-american reboot), you gotta look at it from this angle:

Shinji Mikami made that (and Bayonetta) as a foil to the more (back then) serious and realistic Resident Evil. RE was made with a "Romero-like" movie feel, a realistic dread feel. DMC was made with a more "cheesy 3 am B-movie from the monster movie channel" mentality, as far as I know. It's more obvious with Bayonetta, her personality just screams "female Adam West".

Likewise, Leon the aloof chivalrous closet pervert was meant to be a foil to the more masculine, emotional Chris Redfield. I think there's some Yin-Yang symbolism on that.

BUT THEN, Mikami left Capcom and what happened: RE5 ruined Chris by making him a 'roid-induced imbecile and RE6 ruined Leon by maching him a douchebag. RE4 justified some of Leon's movements with "trainment he took after the Racooon City incident" and other times Mikami just experimenting with "gameplay vs. realism"...

But I guess that's also because of Japanese culture as you mentioned:

For american games, a character is... that, a character in the most traditional sense of the word, a fictional person. In japanese games, a character is basically an ideology in form of a fictional person, but not quite a person... Hence why some games are so over-acted or over-the-top, with roots firmly based in Kabuki theater.

Strictly based on games, there's a lot of factors, and that's why I feel Miyamoto's way of making games works the best:

>First make the gameplay WORK. Test out stuff, take notes, have people try the test engine and give you feedback.
>After an engine is done, what setting fits it best? Sci-fi? Fantasy? Cartoony? Gritty?
>Plot should not be something preventing gameplay from improving (something I feel american games are heavily tied to, they're crippled by the plot they try to tell), either write the plot after the basic game is made, or rewrite the plot as much as needed/as you go.

I feel it's a fair balance between both cultures and why stuff such as Super Mario has universal appeal.

Although, now that you mentioned Alan Wake...

Have you noticed american games try to make plot to make as much sense as possible (even if that cripples the gameplay experience, or ends up in super-long cutscenes) and for all games to avoid plotholes?

Ted Woolsey, a translator for Squaresoft during the SNES era, once mentioned that topic, upon analyzing and living in both US and Japan he came out to the conclusion that American/Western gamers pay close attention to the plot and keep thinking about it and make sense of it, while the average japanese gamer, the plot on itself isn't important, but the theme/ideology behind it.

To give a quick example: For years, us western gamers always wondered why Mega Man doesn't keep the weapons from the previous game, for it'd make much more sense to go to combat fully prepared, and tried to come up with various theories.

The japanese "Rockman" fans, from what I know, don't particularily care about that, just care about the experience self-contained in each different game in the series.

whew, sorry this ended up being such a long post!
 

drganon

Well-known member
I got assassins creed: black flag for Christmas. I played it for about half an hour before I got frustrated with it and quit. Frankly, I think I'm done with this series. I also played the first episode of the walking dead season 2. I enjoyed it and am looking forward to the rest of the season. I also got sleeping dogs and saints row 4 for Christmas, but haven't played either of them yet. Lastly, I'm still playing animal crossing new leaf.
 

Klonoa

Well-known member
I got assassins creed: black flag for Christmas. I played it for about half an hour before I got frustrated with it and quit. Frankly, I think I'm done with this series. I also played the first episode of the walking dead season 2. I enjoyed it and am looking forward to the rest of the season. I also got sleeping dogs and saints row 4 for Christmas, but haven't played either of them yet. Lastly, I'm still playing animal crossing new leaf.

I say Ubisoft should give the franchise a well-deserved rest and give us a new Prince of Persia...

By the way, how's New Leaf?

Also, played A Link Between Worlds yet? It's awesome.
 

JohnnAY

Well-known member
Due the relative backwardness of Mexico back in my childhood, I grew in an anachronism of 1985 to 1990 mixed up together, until globalization and the internet forced the country to catch up - which gave me a MAJOR culture clash at first, so I basically grew with the NES and SNES.

Well, Devil May Cry (pre-american reboot), you gotta look at it from this angle:

Shinji Mikami made that (and Bayonetta) as a foil to the more (back then) serious and realistic Resident Evil. RE was made with a "Romero-like" movie feel, a realistic dread feel. DMC was made with a more "cheesy 3 am B-movie from the monster movie channel" mentality, as far as I know. It's more obvious with Bayonetta, her personality just screams "female Adam West".

Likewise, Leon the aloof chivalrous closet pervert was meant to be a foil to the more masculine, emotional Chris Redfield. I think there's some Yin-Yang symbolism on that.

BUT THEN, Mikami left Capcom and what happened: RE5 ruined Chris by making him a 'roid-induced imbecile and RE6 ruined Leon by maching him a douchebag. RE4 justified some of Leon's movements with "trainment he took after the Racooon City incident" and other times Mikami just experimenting with "gameplay vs. realism"...

But I guess that's also because of Japanese culture as you mentioned:

For american games, a character is... that, a character in the most traditional sense of the word, a fictional person. In japanese games, a character is basically an ideology in form of a fictional person, but not quite a person... Hence why some games are so over-acted or over-the-top, with roots firmly based in Kabuki theater.

Strictly based on games, there's a lot of factors, and that's why I feel Miyamoto's way of making games works the best:

>First make the gameplay WORK. Test out stuff, take notes, have people try the test engine and give you feedback.
>After an engine is done, what setting fits it best? Sci-fi? Fantasy? Cartoony? Gritty?
>Plot should not be something preventing gameplay from improving (something I feel american games are heavily tied to, they're crippled by the plot they try to tell), either write the plot after the basic game is made, or rewrite the plot as much as needed/as you go.

I feel it's a fair balance between both cultures and why stuff such as Super Mario has universal appeal.

Although, now that you mentioned Alan Wake...

Have you noticed american games try to make plot to make as much sense as possible (even if that cripples the gameplay experience, or ends up in super-long cutscenes) and for all games to avoid plotholes?

Ted Woolsey, a translator for Squaresoft during the SNES era, once mentioned that topic, upon analyzing and living in both US and Japan he came out to the conclusion that American/Western gamers pay close attention to the plot and keep thinking about it and make sense of it, while the average japanese gamer, the plot on itself isn't important, but the theme/ideology behind it.

To give a quick example: For years, us western gamers always wondered why Mega Man doesn't keep the weapons from the previous game, for it'd make much more sense to go to combat fully prepared, and tried to come up with various theories.

The japanese "Rockman" fans, from what I know, don't particularily care about that, just care about the experience self-contained in each different game in the series.

whew, sorry this ended up being such a long post!

Well that definitely clears up a lot things I found strange with their games.

You're right. In my visual development class back in college, before any concepts or thumbnails could be drawn, it was heavy HEAVY story. It wasn't until after a month in we were able to throw together the first few sketches. The idea behind it is, without an interesting or gripping plot, the player/audience will not care about your IP.

Personally, I'm more attracted to western franchises because of their intense focus on story. I think that quality makes playing video games seem not AS unproductive as it already is - especially now that I'm older. I would liken it to reading a book, or watching a movie. When I do set aside time to play, I want an experience. Everyone that has played the Gears series will remember Dom cradling his wife, or the phrase "would you kindly" when Atlas reveals his identity in BioShock. Those type moments will haunt me long after I've beaten the game. These are the main reason why I keep coming back to video games as a preferred pastime.

I do understand the comfort of playing a game just for the sake of playing a game. Hell, I've spent hours staring at my phone playing Angry Birds. However, these days it does seem that more and more, Japanese games are adopting more western style production value (I could be wrong).
 

Klonoa

Well-known member
Well that definitely clears up a lot things I found strange with their games.

You're right. In my visual development class back in college, before any concepts or thumbnails could be drawn, it was heavy HEAVY story. It wasn't until after a month in we were able to throw together the first few sketches. The idea behind it is, without an interesting or gripping plot, the player/audience will not care about your IP.

Personally, I'm more attracted to western franchises because of their intense focus on story. I think that quality makes playing video games seem not AS unproductive as it already is - especially now that I'm older. I would liken it to reading a book, or watching a movie. When I do set aside time to play, I want an experience. Everyone that has played the Gears series will remember Dom cradling his wife, or the phrase "would you kindly" when Atlas reveals his identity in BioShock. Those type moments will haunt me long after I've beaten the game. These are the main reason why I keep coming back to video games as a preferred pastime.

I do understand the comfort of playing a game just for the sake of playing a game. Hell, I've spent hours staring at my phone playing Angry Birds. However, these days it does seem that more and more, Japanese games are adopting more western style production value (I could be wrong).

In my opinion, the strong focus on "epic" story-telling and the budget of every game getting over-blown will end up causing a crash akin to the 1983 crash (albeit different reasons). We're living still in a world-wide economic crisis, games get increasingly more expensive. Stories can be find and all, but I rather want to feel like I'm in control than watch endless cutscenes.
A video game is precisely that, a game, not a movie nor a book (after all, a movie will always be a better movie than a videogame), however it's video status puts it in a rather grey area, developers shouldn't forget the media they're using are glorified electronic toys. Yes, you can create art with the medium, but your product will be the art, not the medium in itself. (And I feel the very same about every medium ever, not just games, I mention it because I've been accused of not appreciating games, but I just try to keep a pragmatic, clear look at it).

I mean, I can enjoy the work of cutscenes and plot in games, I even love me some Metal Gear (aka "the best movie I ever played, or game I ever watched") and Metroid: Other M, but I'd very much feel I'm the character instead, and keep it simple: Zelda, to me, is the main example of what I mean, so much even Keiji Inafune (creator of Mega Man, Onimusha and Dead Rising, as well the upcoming Mighty No. 9) said every future-developer should play those games and learn from them.

The stories are written after the gameplay is done, and go through several revisions until the game is made. However, since the gameplay is already done, it feels like the story can blend well with the game (and not try to shove/shoehorn the gameplay into a movie) and become something... well, unique.

Add to the fact there's Link, named as such since he's "the link between the player and the game world", he has zero personality unless the game really calls for him to react in some ways (and it's usually body language and facial expressions, zero dialogue), but that... somehow works. I feel, when playing Zelda, that I'm Link, I'm THE Hero of Whatever, and at the same time, I feel empathy for Link when his little nudges of personality show up through his body language... I feel I'm him, yet at the same time, I feel he's my dude, my bro, mah partner in the adventure, and not just my means to interact with the game world. It's strange.

Of course, that doesn't necesarily mean the main character has to be mute or semi-flat. Let's take another Nintendo example: Kid Icarus Uprising. The engine was made first, and when trying to come up with a theme, a setting and a plot, Miyamoto said to project lead Masahiro Sakurai "Dude, like, this engine would TOTALLY fit Kid Icarus".

Took the concept and ran away with it, Pit being a semi-serious angel who likes to lean or outright break the fourth wall, talk stuff with the gods while he fights and lampshade stuff, while acknowledging it's a game, full of snark. Think a sort of Garfield and Friends humor, while still adding a feeling of adventure.

There are, however, game genres that really need a strong focus on plot to work, mostly interactive visual novels, such as Phoenix Wright, so I don't believe plot should be disregarded, but rather follow Miyamoto's philosphy, it should be second priority.

Funny you mentioned Gears of War. I haven't played those games (or Bioshock to that matter, realistic graphics and grey and brown colors bore me in games), but the creator of Gears lamented the franchise became a "dudebro" game, and wants to reboot it into the game he imagined. I hope he succeeds and the real Gears of War becomes something that rocks my socks off.

I'd like to finish this post by just making clear: I acknowledge to each their own, and a good game is a good game regardless of it's ideology while developing it, but If firmly believe it should be mentioned that it's priority above everything else should be, to be fun. Even it it's story was an academy award, a Les Miserables-tier work of brilliance, if the gameplay sucks, it already failed in it's mission. For the sake of comparison, it'd be the same as if Les Miserables had b and z-list actors and terrible singers, despite it's amazing plot, it'd been a failure as a movie.

Sadly, I feel fun is now a concept of the past, and all resources are going for instant gratification, pseudo-deep stories and "muh realism".

... Speaking of which, yes, japanese developers tried to do western style development. And the franchises died with that change. Mega Man? Dead. Resident Evil? Dead. Devil May Cry? Super dead.

Indeed, while in the previous decade, Wind Waker was despised for being "kiddy" on it's graphical style, while more american style Twilight Princess became "what zelda should be", that kind of reverted since 2011 or so, in which now Wind Waker is appreciated for the boundries it broke, while TP is now more shunned for sticking into formula, and sticking in brown pallettes to look "real".

I'll just leave this quote. I don't know who said it, a friend pasted it to me one day in skype, he read it from a forum (and even so, the poster of this quote wasn't the author), it seems like it spread. Once again, I'm sorry I got carried away with this. As you can see, gaming is the only thing these days that keeps me pasionate, and it depresses me to see that, eventually, it'll die, and the industry itself is being the architect of it's own destruction, much like 1983.

I walked into a gamestop yesterday and realized something disturbing. Video games are not video games any more. All around me are pictures, PHOTOGRAPHS of men in soldier uniforms with dirt on their faces. Everywhere I looked PHOTOGRAPHS of MEN with GUNS and maybe some blue & orange lighting.

Video games used to be a field of creativity, something that was done in your leisure time for a bit of challenging fun. These new movie "games" aren't challenging anymore either, they practically play themselves.

Remember when video games used to look like video games? Remember when they were challenging and required skill and dedication?
I feel like we've fallen so far from our core principles, these new movie "games" don't inspire anyone, they have the same cognitive effect of watching hours of television. Completely mindless. Banal.

I think there seriously needs to be a distinction between these two forms of media. They are very different. One genre offers creativity and is dying out, the other is bordering on fetishistic- manchild fodder that grows along with this generation of apathetic "muh realism" junkies.

It's kinda sad what our hobby has degenerated into. Isn't it?
 
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JohnnAY

Well-known member
^You make a lot of references to games I'm not familiar with, but I think I follow you.

You have an advantage in that there are plenty of games without a shred of story. These games will always have their market, but they are essentially mind numbing activities in which you gain nothing from after you've finished it. Perhaps if I were younger I wouldn’t mind, but these days I’m much better off going on a jog or playing a sport. A good story adds so much more substance to the activity.

Every game should have an emphasis on being fun/entertaining. But that could be interpreted either way. Put it this way, I would play a point and click adventure game if the story continually sucked me in. Games like MassEffect and Baldurs Gate, which are dialogue heavy, don't require you to string together 80 hit combos. It's a reason all those text based adventure games have their own niche demographic.

No, games are not movies, nor are books, but each medium will always be innovating ways of engaging with the audience. It's a natural progression - one I think in the right direction; The Elder Scrolls series always has a LARGE assortment of in-game books that some players take the time to read. Heavy Rain is the only game I can think of off the top of my head that kind of did blur the lines between film and game. But even that, I thoroughly enjoyed the experience. And if cutscenes are a major gripe for you, Metal Gear is the number one offender. I couldn't play an hour before falling into a deep coma.

The creators of BioShock Infinite debated for a long time whether or not they should give the player's character a voice. It definitely makes a difference in your perception when playing. They ultimately did give him his own identity, and it took nothing away. You still projected yourself onto him; you still feel the connection between him/you and (arguably) the main character Elizabeth. Nowhere in the game are you “not in control” of your actions. The story progresses, and you are the vehicle for that progression.

The failure of Resident Evil and all the other games you mentioned to capture the American audience has nothing to do with western methodology. I can only assume the change in development did nothing but turn off their core fan base.

For what it's worth, Cliff Bleszinski did an incredible job with Gears. But it seems it wasn't the story or gameplay that turned you off, but rather the art style. There's a podcast where he talks about his time at EPIC and a host of other issues that I think you would enjoy listening to.

Joe Rogan Experience #427 - Cliffy B - YouTube

I'm assuming your quote is referring to all the run of the mill COD games. I don't particularly like those games either, but that’s an issue with publishing companies taking risks - which should be for another discussion.

Players who continually question the motives of the characters and the reason they should be invested, are what drives games to improve. Otherwise it would be as your quote states "completely mindless".
 
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Klonoa

Well-known member
It should be said, having no plot is no excuse to be a terrible game.

Super Mario Galaxy isn't the paradigm of storytelling (Rosalina's backstory not withstanding), but it's MILES more complex and gratifying than a score-maker like Candy Crunch Saga or Angry Birds.

I'm sorry I mentioned games you didn't knew, I thought all my examples were well-known? o_O Mega Man, Phoenix Wright, Kid Icarus all have a rather-large following and a big fanbases...

Regardless, point and click adventure, that's precisely what Phoenix Wright game is. You take the role of the titular character, a rookie defense attorney set sometime "in the near future", as you solve plenty of cases focused mostly on murder of victims, doing detective work, interrogating characters and... facing other quirky characters. It even got a film in Japan, an american remake has been rumored.

PW1boxsmall.jpg

The games' plots, both the overall arc, and each case individual mystery tend to be VERY engaging. I don't think I expressed myself properly, I meant that action/adventure games should be more focused in the actual gameplay, that it's not broken, whilst text adventures like this, or like Monkey Island, should by all means have it's main focus on plot.

Every medium indeed has it's differences and ways of being engaging:

For example, before RE5 killed the Survival Horror genre and regelated it to the indie scene, games I feel are a much more powerful tool to make you feel legitimately scared than with movies. In movies, you're all like "YOU MORON, RUN!" but in a game you can't watch the character act on it's own. You're the character, you gotta react. And that's creepy.

project-zero-2-wii-edition-010.jpg

Case in point. These dead people be damned, it's not like I wanted to sleep tonight...

Heavy Rain particularily bugged me (regardless of it's story), because it's basically Dragon's Lair in HD. We got so much technology and processing capacity, why are we regressing back into watching a movie in which pressing buttons at the correct time, the so-called quicktime events, are everything you do the entire game?

It was revolutionary when Dragon's Lair first did it in 1983, it was somewhat interesting, but not that good when Shenmue did it in 1999, but in 2013, it just felt lazy.

The change of Resident Evil development to have a western studio take over didn't kill only it's core fanbase, but anyone who likes horror games in general, that's why RE6 was such a terrible third-person CoD clone.

You know, I'm glad the Bioshock fans took the personality of the main characters nicely, I honestly am. May I tell you a similar tale with an opposite result?

Do you know Metroid? If not, I'll resume as quickly as I can: It's a scifi franchise by Nintendo, created by toymaker Gunpei Yokoi and his core team consisting of Yoshio Sakamoto (who took over the franchise after Yokoi's death in a car accident), Makoto Kano (concept and story designer), Hiroji Kiyotake (character designer, most notably of the main character Samus Aran). Usually, as you can see in this picture, kids accuse Samus of being a Master Chief rip-off, but bear in mind the first Metroid came out in 1986, 16 years before the first Halo.

The games appeal mostly to Western Audiences rather than the Japanese audience being usually open-ended games relying heavily in exploration, and the 3D installments (Developed in Austin, Texas, in a Nintendo studio known as Retro Studios, by various americans and japanese members, led by Shigeru Miyamoto) appealed to most people at first due to it's first person view. (However, such view wasn't the case, Miyamoto made the team re-start the project TWICE feeling the first 2 builds weren't good enough. After Miyamoto saw an experimental First-Person engine Retro was working with, they scrapped all the work done and began anew, feeling the first-person view would encourage exploration. And damn skippy, it did.

Anyway, the tale of personality. Though the Metroid franchise, Samus has kept with zero personality, only just slight showings of personality through face and body language much like Link himself. The player, through the span of various games, knew nothing about Samus except that she saw her parents die at the age of 3 and was adopted by a race of aliens named Chozo, who trained her and gave her the armor she wears, and as a teenager worked as a soldier for the Galactic Federation. Afterwards, she became a "Bounty Hunter", which in Metroid is more of a Black-Ops operative, sent to various dangerous planets to investigate, infiltrate and terminate various targets.

But her personality? Nope, not counting very brief opening narrations, none. Zero. Nada. (Unless you lived in Japan in 1994, where they tried to give her in a comicbook a more silly personality, toying around with the 'dumb blonde' stereotype, but it was super short-lived, that phase). A flat character as flat as it can get.

2010 comes Metroid: Other M, an ambitious project that costed Nintendo millions and millions of dollars. It gives Samus an elaborated personality. Her face reflection of her visor in the Prime games already hinted torwards a chronically depressed personality and Other M developed further on her, the woman under the armor suit.

And suprise. She's a woman. With feelings. And a very broken psyche from the crap life she had.

And DAMN, here comes the shitstorm, the fanbase hated it, called Samus a whiney, weakling girl, some pseudo-gamer girl reviewers calling the game sexist since, in Other M, Samus doesn't get hired by the Federation, but rather, becomes involved in an investigation held by her former team members in the army, and her former commander, Adam Malkovich, makes it clear: Either obey him completely (like the other soldiers do, since he's leading the investigation in the space colony Bottle Ship), or have her arrested.

Samus agrees, quite annoyed (and hurt by his offensive choice of words to adress her after years of not seeing each other), to obey his commands, and have him decide when Samus should use what weapons. Despite the fact the other (male) characters follow the exact same rule, just because Samus is a woman, apparently that already makes it sexist.

And even WORSE, since her narration implies as a teenager she had feelings for Adam... Or the fact the game's theme is Maternity, with Samus regretting the death of the baby Metroid that gave it's life to protect her in Super Metroid, the game set before Other M, and remembering when she met said baby in Metroid II: The Return of Samus. As well people complaining "she talked too much" when, in-game, Samus was still silent while it's previous installments, it's just that she doubled as the Narrator to the player to explore her personality, while keeping her stoic and not-too talkative to the other characters.

... It's just worse with the fans who seriously thought a woman as "strong-willed" as Samus (when she had no personality) couldn't be straight, that she had to be a macho man with boobs and a lesbian. Isn't that even MORE sexist? And offensive to lesbians, struggling with the "butch" stereotype?

Hell, before Other M, I thought Metroid games (despite their rich lore) were boring due to the boring flat character Samus Aran, it's scifi space theme (something I don't particularily enjoy much in games unless it's Mega Man), and the games being so big on exploration and few save stations, in which case if you die, progress is lost.

After Other M, I felt invested and interested into the character herself, I genuinely cared now, and thus began to play every other game in the series and began to appreciate them a lot.

Anyway, it ended with the game selling really bad, with it's price lowered from 40 bucks to 9 bucks, and the entire franchise and it's history is standing on super thin ice. The franchise might just die.

And yeah, just to clarify, the quote meant CoD and it's various clones, with terrible cliché "story" about terrorism that can be skipped. Seriously, how did Black Ops won a Guiness Record to "best videogame ending"? My rear, there are better games with MUCH better stories. I call sell-outs.

Wait, also, where did Metal Gear failed for you? I mean, it's the only game other than Other M, I don't mind cutscene because I absolutely LOVE it's nod to actors and classic cult movies, myself being a movie nut.

I love how Revolver Ocelot is TOTALLY Lee Van Cleef, Solid Snake is clearly Snake Plissken, Raiden is Legolas!Orlando Bloom, Big Boss is clearly Sean Connery, so much the prequel games with Big Boss (under the code-name Naked Snake) are clear shout-outs to his James Bond movies. And when you save the game, paramedic discussing with Naked Snake from well-known movies like A Fistful of Dollars, to hilariously bad ones like Plan 9 From Outer Space!

Kojima does his homework, and it shows!

... And the long ending and dialogue in Metal Gear Solid 4 makes it clear he was sick and tired of being "The Metal Gear Guy", wanting to move on other projects Konami won't let him, and his magnum opus, Boktai, regelated to a small-time GBA game, forgotten by time...
 
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squidgee

Well-known member
I've wanted to ask this for a while, so better now than never:

Guys, what're your favorite video game genres and why?

I'm just curious about it.

RPGs, specifically first person or third person RPGs. For some reason I just don't like top down views. They generally have a lengthy single player component, character customisation/spe******ation, lots to explore (usually).

Horror. Love the thrill and suspense, and if the horror is done well, you'll always be on edge.

Edit: Lol, word got censored because I unintentionally named a drug used to treat erectile dysfunction.
 
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Klonoa

Well-known member
Horror done RIGHT can be so engaging! That's why I love me some Project Zero 2 and Calling! Videogames are turly unique at developing horror.

Also, what drug for erectile dysfunction? o_O Was the word "specialization"?
 

squidgee

Well-known member
Horror done RIGHT can be so engaging! That's why I love me some Project Zero 2 and Calling! Videogames are turly unique at developing horror.

Also, what drug for erectile dysfunction? o_O Was the word "specialization"?

Yeah that's the word. Just replace the 'z' with an 's' and you get c.i.a.l.i.s.
 

Klonoa

Well-known member
Huh, I thought it was spelled with z?

A-anyway, thanks for clarifying that! I didn't knew such drug existed.
 
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