Sweet Marie's Thread

NathanielWingatePeaslee

Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!
Staff member
I've been feeling the need lately for a friend. A companion, preferably of the female persuasion, to just...be my friend. Someone I can talk to that doesn't involve just complaining or gossiping (although a little of those things could be good too). I used to have this in my sisters, but now they are out of state and too busy to be my pal. I miss that. We three used to meet once a week at each others' places to watch tv and eat snacks. I still remember one of the last times we met together like that, I showed them my bf's dating site profile, shortly before I went out with him for the first time. That was four years ago, and it hurts to think how much we have grown apart since then. I have done my part, being so wrapped up in putting all my energy into making the relationship work, but now that my life has stabilized I feel like I need them again and they have moved on. The thing is, I feel like we all three really need each other in this way, and yet we have somehow failed to continue to be there for each other in the past few years. It makes me sad, and I wonder if we will ever get that back.

I guess what I'm really wanting is that sisterly bond with someone. I want to befriend someone in an active way, not the mind-numbingly passive way that is social media these days. I can post my favorite song on facebook all day and only a few people might bother to watch or "like" it, but I want someone to share the video or song with directly, to share the experience, maybe even have a conversation or at least exchange words about it. If this were someone geographically close that would be wonderful, because we could meet at the coffee shop down the road and sit together and laugh over things and compliment each other's hairstyles. But even if I could have this sort of intimate relationship with someone online, I think that would be wonderful as well. I want to be writing these thoughts and feelings to one special person, instead of posting it out there for everyone to see and hoping that someone might respond if they feel like it. That method has its value and is something I enjoy doing, but you have to admit that it is terribly impersonal, and can end up making me feel more alone than I felt before I typed anything at all.

Some of you may be wondering why I feel lonely when I have the ever-coveted relationship. I actually live with someone that I consider to be my best friend and with whom I share nearly everything. And yes, that's very nice, but it's not enough. The balance is off. I want another friendship, one that isn't concerned with who did the dishes last or what bills still need to be paid. I don't want another person to share a retirement fund with, just another person to get to know and like, and someone to share things with in a direct manner. I miss that directness that exists almost nowhere on the internet anymore. It could exist, and does sometimes, but more often than not we are just flinging things out there for a hundred or so people to glance at if they have the time. All the intimacy is gone.

It's been such a long time since I made a friend that wasn't someone I was romantically involved with. I don't even know how to do it anymore, if I ever did in the first place. Reeling in a partner is relatively easy for me, but without the vulnerability and bonding that comes with the physical aspect of a relationship, then I am at a loss. How do I express my interest in a potential platonic companion? How do I act without coming across as obsessed and overbearing? How do I even begin to know that the person likes me back and isn't just humoring me out of pity or some sense of duty? And what assurance could I possibly have that I am special to that person, and that they aren't going to just pass me over for some other, better friend that they may already have dozens of?

I'm reminded of a time in highschool, when I made friends with a girl in my class that I really loved. When I invited her to come over to spend the weekend at my house and she accepted, I was overjoyed and spent the next week just coming up with things for us to do that weekend. That Friday, hours before we were supposed to be leaving for my home, she ran up to me and said that she had decided to go to someone else's house that weekend instead. To say that I was crushed is an understatement. I was irreparably damaged, as is made obvious by the fact that, fourteen years later, it still hurts to think about it. I think that's the last time I ever invited any girl (sisters aside) out to do anything with me.

I guess I lost my trust, and I never got it back. I tried reading books about how to overcome shyness, and how to make friends and eventually I learned how to be friendly with people and make some really good acquaintances. But I wouldn't in the least know how to jump that space between acquaintance and friend, even though I've fantasized about it with certain people. Actually, I do remember attempting to hang out with my coworker, when I first started my current job. She was open to it, but things never lined up right, and it just never happened, which left me assuming that she never really wanted to in the first place. The trouble with adults is, many times they will agree to hang out with you, but you can never really tell if they mean it or not, or if they are just being polite. I'm guilty of this as well, but it hurts when time and time again another person or another couple flakes out or changes their plans the day before or decides they just can't make it for one reason or another. The more I type about it the more times I am reminded of times we have invited people out to do things with us, and they have acted interested but nothing has ever come of it.

I think that, somewhere along the way, I have just given up. I know my bf feels the same way, so it's not just a social anxiety thing. He is an extrovert who has no problem meeting or hanging out and talking to people, but he still feels this dreadful lack of commitment among people who are supposed to be his or our "friends." These are people of all ages, from all walks of life, and we just can't seem to find anyone who really cares enough to give a damn. It's frustrating. I'm used to being lonely and friendless, but it hurts me to see him wanting to be liked by people and no one will bother to be his good friend. What is the deal with people?
I think it really just has to happen accidentally. Not that I'm an expert. But common interests, common location, similar free times, and of course enough general socializing to meet one you finally make a good match with.

For me it's that last one that's the hardest. The effort is awfully draining.
 

MikeyC

Well-known member
If it's any consolation - and it probably isn't - I would be your friend if I was nearby. Being a male doesn't really fit in with your requirements of what you're looking for, though.

I don't know how you become friends with people, and I agree with Nate that these things are likely more accidental than we think.

It does sound like you're lonely, and online chatting isn't going to fulfil that need. I hate to see you hurting.
 

MollyBeGood

Well-known member
I have a hard time making girl friends, easier with guys for sure, but always some under-lying awkward sexual tension with men.
I had a nice time being friends with a co worker this summer, but she was in a reallly bad relationship and it made us being real friends impossible, which made me sad. He would monitor her every move, that kinda guy.
The older you get the harder it is to find people who have things in common with you and have similar lifestyles. Seems like there's always something driving a wedge between real connections, whether that be they have kids, a different job, religion, etc...
I get lonely for female friends, too. It does suck.
 

Silatuyok

Well-known member
So a question that needs to be asked and thought about is this: how many different can you be friends with (not just acquaintances, but close friends) with at one time? 2-3 sounds about right to me. More just sounds exhausting/challenging, but I'm sure there are people that can handle more. I think it would get challenging though. And one thing is that life can get in the way of just two people spending a lot of time together and being close, let alone 3, 4, or 6 or 10, etc. The more people you add in the more differing work schedules, family schedules/plans/etc are added in, making it more challenging.

Still though, it's still odd how people are like this when there are so many ways to stay in close contact with other people, and even do things with other people, via the internet. E-Mail, chat programs, Skype, forums, video games (multiplayer), etc. If two or more people really want to be close friends, stay up-to-date with each other, and do things with each other, they can. And if you do it right, it shouldn't be a hassle at all really. Heck, you also have cellphones and texting.

I think having 2-3 close friends, including my partner, would be just about my limit. Having friends takes a lot of energy out of me, and I wouldn't be able to handle going out and interacting more than maybe once a week at the most.
You are right about the ease of staying in touch through modern technology, but I think that the whole concept of social media has caused us to move away from the one on one interactions that used to be so normal. I'm considering making more of an effort to befriend my old best friend from high school, even though she lives in another state and has her own busy life to deal with. She has always been a sincere person, so maybe just sending a note saying, "I want us to be friends again and I'm going to make a better effort at keeping in touch" would do the trick. It's worth a try, anyway.
 

Silatuyok

Well-known member
I can relate to this word for word (minus the boyfriend). And I don't know what the solution is. There are so many articles online about how to make friends - real friends - but it seems like one of those things that works in theory, but in practice is much more difficult. You might find yourself getting along well with someone and think, Great! New friend! but as you said already, often it just doesn't get any farther than that initial friendliness, and your attempts to meet up go up in smoke as the excuses come or forgetfulness (should probably put that in quotes, because sometimes I think it's an excuse to avoid) happens.

There should be an official handbook entitled How to Make Friends for Adults, and everyone should be required to read it their senior year of high school, and then go out and make friends the right way and keep in touch with them :p

Sometimes I feel like such an awful obsessive stalker when I meet a girl that I want to be friends with! And then I get crushed when that other person "forgets" or changes plans. I'm so hypersensitive to those types of things, and I think that just makes it even harder to befriend anyone because then I become distrustful and hold a grudge.
 

Silatuyok

Well-known member
I think it really just has to happen accidentally. Not that I'm an expert. But common interests, common location, similar free times, and of course enough general socializing to meet one you finally make a good match with.

For me it's that last one that's the hardest. The effort is awfully draining.

You are very right. Friendships do need to develop naturally, I think. I just feel so impatient some days waiting for one to show up on my doorstep. I think this "friend" I'm dreaming up in my head is more of some sort of mythical perfect creature that I'm searching for in vain, when what I really should do is just sit back and enjoy the acquaintances I have and make and see if anything more develops. I'm just not very good at doing it that way!
 

Silatuyok

Well-known member
If it's any consolation - and it probably isn't - I would be your friend if I was nearby. Being a male doesn't really fit in with your requirements of what you're looking for, though.

I don't know how you become friends with people, and I agree with Nate that these things are likely more accidental than we think.

It does sound like you're lonely, and online chatting isn't going to fulfil that need. I hate to see you hurting.

Mikey, I would love to have you as a friend! I am hurting a bit, but it's just a dull ache, so don't worry too much about me. :)
 

Silatuyok

Well-known member
I have a hard time making girl friends, easier with guys for sure, but always some under-lying awkward sexual tension with men.
I had a nice time being friends with a co worker this summer, but she was in a reallly bad relationship and it made us being real friends impossible, which made me sad. He would monitor her every move, that kinda guy.
The older you get the harder it is to find people who have things in common with you and have similar lifestyles. Seems like there's always something driving a wedge between real connections, whether that be they have kids, a different job, religion, etc...
I get lonely for female friends, too. It does suck.

YES. It has been getting much harder to find other women who have the time and the energy, not to mention common interests and whatnot. I have always felt more comfortable around men, and I'm starting to realize lately that women tend to intimidate me in social situations. I think it's because I grew up in a family with five other women who were very hypercritical, judgmental people, and so I assume that all or most women are secretly criticizing everything I say or do or think or wear.
The fact of being in a relationship just complicates the whole friendship issue, as people tend to assume that I don't need a friend, or I don't feel comfortable hanging out one on one with another guy, or I don't feel comfortable bringing my boyfriend along to hang out with a female friend.
 

Odo

Banned
I think more than anything it is a question of time.

It's easier to make friends when you're really young because there are almost no distractions, you don't have enough control over your life for there to be a lot of options, you have all the time in the world, and you don't even need to think about relationships.

But as you get older, you have more options and less time to pursue them... and it's easy to deprioritize friendship in favor of the other things in your life.

I think the most isolated people in the world have to be couples with newborn babies... and at your age, that's the case for a lot of people.

And it's not like the 50s where men and women had rigidly defined roles and spent a lot of time hanging out... you're pretty much expected to go straight home after work and tend to your familial obligations/get making babies, and then you discuss all of those things you would have discussed with your sewing circle/work colleagues/fishing buddies with your modern S.O.

If you're shy/have anxiety, then it's pretty much impossible to break through into an already hectic schedule, because people are more inclined to drop you for causing them extra hassles... you really do need to bring something valuable to the table for anyone to consider you versus all of the other options in the vast sea of options.
 

MikeyC

Well-known member
You are right about the ease of staying in touch through modern technology, but I think that the whole concept of social media has caused us to move away from the one on one interactions that used to be so normal.
I think that has been studied and proven to be true. We're more connected than we've ever been, but also more lonely than ever.

Mikey, I would love to have you as a friend! I am hurting a bit, but it's just a dull ache, so don't worry too much about me. :)
You know I will worry about you, my friend. ;)
 

Silatuyok

Well-known member
Last night I had one of my recurring dreams about getting lost in a shopping mall. I have these every so often, and they are always those tiresome, anxious dreams, where you are just walking and walking and every time you turn around the scene changes, confusing you and making it impossible to find your way to anywhere. I wonder what it means. Obviously I have a distaste for malls, which is the worst mixture of consumerism and public space. But I think the feeling of disorientation among a sea of people probably has more to do with it. I don't talk to anyone in my dreams, I can't get anyone to help me or maybe I don't even ask for help. I'm just a rat in a maze, trying to get OUT. Sometimes, like last night, the dream involves emotions of longing, trying to get back to a place or a person where I feel safe. I don't put a great deal of meaning into the things by subconscious comes up with while I am asleep, but the fact that I continue to have versions of this dream over the course of decades is enough to convince me that there is some deeper meaning that is eluding my conscious mind.

In other news: my family continues to fall apart in the most bizarre ways, and I now feel completely out of control of any of it. I would like to extract my dad from the equation and tuck him away neatly where he doesn't have to be bothered by the drama, but he is such a family man and feels the need to take care of any of his deadbeat children who come to him assuming that he will help. In the past several months my entire family has crumbled into nothing. Having been rasied as a very family-oriented person, this has been strange to deal with (and not easy, as I'm sure is obvious by my past posts). More than ever I feel the need to insulate myself from the chaos that is my family, but I still feel certain ties and responsibilities, and more than ever I'm not sure what to do about any of it at all.
But, I'm not going to sit here any longer and make myself late to work because of it. Focusing on my own life and personal responsibilities right now is the only thing I can effectively do, and so that is what I will do.
 

Silatuyok

Well-known member
I've decided that my life's purpose is to open my very own cat rescue. I get really excited whenever I think about it, and I have several ideas for it that I have never seen done in any kind of shelter/rescue before. I'd go into more detail on my ideas, but I don't want to give away my secrets. ;)

Although it's far from a money-making scheme, I think the idea is perfect for me because it combines everything I love with the skills and talents I already have. I've always been a little bit of an entrepreneur, and this would be a fun way to start my own "business." I love photography and I'm interested in design and marketing, but I haven't pursued any of those interests as careers because I loathe the commercial aspects that are inherent in them. But when you are marketing homeless cats you can feel good about manipulating the minds of the masses! I also enjoy writing, and I know that running an operation of this nature entails a great deal of written communication and grant writing, as well as the fun creative writing that comes with selling the unique personalities of the cats.
In terms of skills, I have thousands of hours of shelter and clinical experience working with animals. I have contacts/friends in nearly every animal rescue operation in the city, and extending out into into surrounding counties. And I know a few people who would be delighted to sink some money into my little venture. I know almost nothing about starting a bone fide non-profit organization, but I know plenty of people who have done it and would be more than happy to help me get started. It's just a matter of asking (which might be one of the bigger challenges in all this).

It will be some time, of course, before I can really start to think about doing this kind of thing. I want it to be a bit of a high-end operation, run out of a location close to my home but certainly not IN it. I want it to be classy and perhaps give the illusion of exclusivity, because I feel like people are more inclined to want something if they think it means being a part of something special. Of course I think that good homes come in all demographics, but I fully intend to tap into that American sense of entitlement and self-promotion to help my kitties find amazing homes.

The thing is this: my whole intent in this matter is to help support the flow of animals out of the city shelter, where they die by the thousands because there is simply not enough space to keep them. If I take even the prettiest, friendliest, most adoptable animals that end up in cages there, I will still be doing a great deal to help those less fortunate ones left behind who may need a little more love and time to get into good homes. I think many shelters understandably focus on helping those less fortunate animals, because they need the help. But my idea is to simply keep the adoptable cats moving, so that they don't end up becoming unadoptable cats, and so more of the city's and rescues' scant resources can focus on helping those less fortunate animals.
It's just one way of approaching the same problem as everyone else.

If you've read even a portion of this text, you can probably see that I've thought about this a lot and I'm pretty excited about the possibility. If I continue to sustain my current standard of living, eventually I will get to a point where I can work part time and have a good chunk of my week to devote to my little operation. And by "little" I'm thinking that I will not have more than 10-12 cats in my system at any given time. The idea is to keep them moving, so I don't feel the need to have large numbers of adoptable cats stagnating in my facility. The fewer cats I have, the more time I can devote to promoting each individual, and the more I can focus on promoting the idea of cat adoption in general.

I have found the unique opportunity to start a business that makes no money, uses all of my talents and resources, and is designed to promote my "competitors" instead of, well..instead of competing with them. And I can do it all with my own sweat and tears. I think it is a great way to blend my own beliefs and sensibilities with the (often ruthless) ambition of the American Dream. I'm excited to get started.
 

FountainandFairfax

in a VAN down by the RIVER
I think that if you can do something you love, you've got a big part of life figured out. I'm sure it will be tough at times, but just think of all the rewards. I'm excited for you.

I'd say hang a picture of a kitten on your refrigerator to keep you focused on the dream, but I get the feeling you've got plenty of reminders hanging around. :D
 

Silatuyok

Well-known member
I think that if you can do something you love, you've got a big part of life figured out. I'm sure it will be tough at times, but just think of all the rewards. I'm excited for you.

I'd say hang a picture of a kitten on your refrigerator to keep you focused on the dream, but I get the feeling you've got plenty of reminders hanging around. :D

Thank you! Haha, I definitely don't need any reminders! ::p:
 

MikeyC

Well-known member
Hey, that's awesome, Marie. Your love of cats surpasses anybody I know, so this idea for a cat rescue would be amazing. I'm behind your venture all the way. :)
 

Silatuyok

Well-known member
An interesting train of thought I simply had to come here to post:

1. I've been realizing lately, quite painfully, that I have an amazing way of inadvertently alienating people who love me and want to be close to me. The whole deal with my mom and sister moving away and not understanding why it upsets me has brought me to understand this (among other circumstances).

2. I've been thinking, lately, about how I just don't know how to go about making friends. I want to, and I've been trying hard lately, but I keep throwing the ball into others' courts and I keep getting little in return. It must be me, because I'm the only common denominator in all of this. There's something I'm not doing right and I have no idea what it is.

3. While on the drive home today I listened to a show on NPR discussing Adam Lanza and his struggles with mild autism and how this manifested in his life and in the lives of others with Asperger's, etc.

4. I made some mental connections, and researched more about Asperger's when I got home. It's hard for me to tell, but a lot of it seems to fit with my current difficulties and the horrible time I had while growing up. I've learned a lot in the past two years about how to interact with people, but I still avoid it because I don't know how.

5. I came across this interesting factoid in one of the articles that I read:

"While adults with Asperger’s do struggle with anxiety, they don’t have social phobia. Gaus said that people with social phobia have the social skills to interact and communicate with others but they’re afraid to use those skills. In other words, they’re “socially skilled but have a distorted belief that the outcome [of their interactions] will be poor.”

For people with Asperger’s, however, avoiding interactions is more about self-preservation, she said. They’re well aware that they’re unable to read cues or know the appropriate thing to say. They’ve also made mistakes in the past and experienced rejection, she added."
 

coyote

Well-known member
"...Gaus said that people with social phobia have the social skills to interact and communicate with others but they’re afraid to use those skills. In other words, they’re “socially skilled but have a distorted belief that the outcome [of their interactions] will be poor.”

this is true for me at any rate
 

Silatuyok

Well-known member
I can't tell if it's true for me or not. I mean, I've gotten better at developing my social skills, but when I am socially awkward it is because I don't know what to say or what to do and I feel like people are going to notice and secretly laugh at me for it. As far as I'm concerned, I do really well with interacting with people, but then they think that I am snubbing them or isolating myself or that I just don't want to be friends with them, when the exact opposite is true. I just don't understand why my efforts aren't ever good enough, but Asperger's might be one possible explanation.
 

Hoppy

Well-known member
I want to, and I've been trying hard lately, but I keep throwing the ball into others' courts and I keep getting little in return.

I had the same problem. For now I am taking a break from trying to make friends. Will try again sometime in the future.

And if you are falling somewhere on the Asperger/Autism spectrum on some aspects of your personality the possibility of ever getting diagnosed by a professional is very remote.

And that is why the most important thing for people like us is to become our own doctors and therapists.

And the journey keeps going.
 
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