How to change an unconscious thought

I was in therapy with many different therapists for well over a decade. I completely failed in therapy. No results to point to. I once saw a therapist -- in fact, one of the last I ever saw -- who told me that I failed in therapy because I unconsciously identify therapists with my father.

I'm getting rather desperate. I am 49 years old and never acquired social skills. I am frightened of growing old while being alone. Is there something I can do to stop identifying therapists with my father? I'm thinking that if I have a therapist and do not identify him or her with my father, than I will make progress in therapy, acquire social skills, become part of a family. What are my prospects?

This relates, I suppose, to an earlier post of mine where I expressed concern over what mental illness or cluster of mental illnesses I have. I am concerned as to whether I have a curable or incurable condition. Given that my psychiatrists have contradicted each other a lot, I am left feeling very confused.

In what way do you identify them with your father? If this implies something very negative that happened between you and your father, have you made peace with it? You can only truly move forward when you've made peace with whatever happened in the past. Maybe then you can openly seek therapy without having that barrier, and start improving in meaningful ways.

What were you in therapy for, your social anxiety, something else, or all of the above? And have you been on any medications? If so, did any of them help?

I have little experience with therapists, but one thing I thought would be to ask the other therapist(s) if they agreed with the one who claimed you were identifying them with your father. If they thought you were doing that to them.

I don't know how much therapy could help with your social skills. That's something that can only be accomplished through practice. Suffering from social anxiety myself, I understand how uncomfortable it is and how big of a hill it is to climb. But if you want to have relationships, you must fight through it and keep trying. However, without knowing your relationship history, it's hard to offer any advice. Finding mates is difficult enough, even without social and mental handicaps. Rely on whatever network of family and friends you have and do your best to try.

Well, I honestly believe that my father belonged in prison, and I hate myself for not having been brave enough to see to it that he went there. But he's dead now. Anyway, I find it a little weird that I would unconsciously identify *anyone* with him. But this is what the therapist said. Btw, I never saw this therapist again, because I found him very rude.

Xervello said:

What were you in therapy for, your social anxiety, something else, or all of the above? And have you been on any medications? If so, did any of them help?

I have little experience with therapists, but one thing I thought would be to ask the other therapist(s) if they agreed with the one who claimed you were identifying them with your father. If they thought you were doing that to them.

I don't know how much therapy could help with your social skills. That's something that can only be accomplished through practice. Suffering from social anxiety myself, I understand how uncomfortable it is and how big of a hill it is to climb. But if you want to have relationships, you must fight through it and keep trying. However, without knowing your relationship history, it's hard to offer any advice. Finding mates is difficult enough, even without social and mental handicaps. Rely on whatever network of family and friends you have and do your best to try.

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I was in therapy for social anxiety, but therapists and psychiatrists may have had funny ideas about what my real problem was/is.

I am looking back at all this, years later. The bulk of my therapy was in my 20s when I lived in New York City, supposedly a good place to seek therapy. It all seems so pointless now. One therapist literally had me lying on a couch free associating about my childhood. This was very useful in making me feel awful, but I don't see how it made me more social. She said that I could only be social once my depression is cured. Well, is depression my problem? I've heard all sorts of things about what my problem is, including Asperger syndrome and -- believe it or not -- schizophrenia.

As for practice -- look, I'm pushing 50. I've had tons of practice. I'm just no good at it. The practice doesn't help.

I've also had tons of medication. I react badly to meds, and find them very frightening. The last time a psychiatrist prescribed medication, I threw the prescription away. "I'm not doing that again" was my thought.

Earthcircle said:

Well, I honestly believe that my father belonged in prison, and I hate myself for not having been brave enough to see to it that he went there. But he's dead now. Anyway, I find it a little weird that I would unconsciously identify *anyone* with him. But this is what the therapist said. Btw, I never saw this therapist again, because I found him very rude.

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But as you've said, your father's dead now. How much does all of that still bother you? It seems like it bothers you plenty, and it's just one of the things that's rendering you unable to move forward.

You're not physiologically or biologically unable to socialize or live a normal life. You need to figure out all the negative patterns that go on inside your head and prevent you from doing all the things you like, and start changing them from scratch.

Sacrament said:

In what way do you identify them with your father?

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I don't know. I'm only repeating what I was told. I am gay, and I tend to fall in love with male therapists, which makes the whole thing even weirder. I couldn't imagine falling in love with my father, who was really a monster.

Maybe you're falling in love with the paternal figure that your father couldn't be and that a therapist can provide (in a nurturing, fatherly, holding-you-while-you're-crying-and-teaching-you-how-to-live-your-life kind of way).

Sacrament said:

Maybe you're falling in love with the paternal figure that your father couldn't be and that a therapist can provide (in a nurturing, fatherly, holding-you-while-you're-crying-and-teaching-you-how-to-live-your-life kind of way).

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And that prevents me from making progress in therapy?

I understood the idea to be this: I unconsciously identify the therapist with my father. Therefore, I hate the therapist. Therefore, I refuse to make progress in therapy as a means of spiting the therapist. All of this completely unconscious, of course. But then falling in love with therapists doesn't seem to make any sense.

Well, if you're identifying them with someone you resent and feel so negatively about, and at the same time you fall for them, that's not really going to create a positive atmosphere where you can make progress. Therapy involves detachment between patient and therapist, there can be no emotional connection. It's a place for you to talk about what ails you and for the other person to complement your life by giving you a little push.

Sacrament said:

Well, if you're identifying them with someone you resent and feel so negatively about, and at the same time you fall for them, that's not really going to create a positive atmosphere where you can make progress. Therapy involves detachment between patient and therapist, there can be no emotional connection. It's a place for you to talk about what ails you and for the other person to complement your life by giving you a little push.

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The falling in love part is hard to avoid. It just seems to happen.

I don't see how it's hard to avoid. As soon as you start developing feelings, you stop them at their root so you can keep seeing that therapist in a way that doesn't involve feelings. Surely you're not controlled by the part of you that falls for them.

I don't think the therapist was referring to erotic transference. I think he was referring to hostility. But I only saw him one time, because I found him offensive, so I never really had the chance to understand exactly what he meant.

Earthcircle said:

I was in therapy with many different therapists for well over a decade. I completely failed in therapy. No results to point to. I once saw a therapist -- in fact, one of the last I ever saw -- who told me that I failed in therapy because I unconsciously identify therapists with my father.

I'm getting rather desperate. I am 49 years old and never acquired social skills. I am frightened of growing old while being alone. Is there something I can do to stop identifying therapists with my father? I'm thinking that if I have a therapist and do not identify him or her with my father, than I will make progress in therapy, acquire social skills, become part of a family. What are my prospects?

This relates, I suppose, to an earlier post of mine where I expressed concern over what mental illness or cluster of mental illnesses I have. I am concerned as to whether I have a curable or incurable condition. Given that my psychiatrists have contradicted each other a lot, I am left feeling very confused.

Click to expand...

I think I might have done something similar with my mom. I don't know what this is called.

And honestly, I believe that all illnesses are curable.

I think that no one therapist is going to hit all the nails on the head, some will be right about some things and others wrong, so there's a need to ask if what they are saying rings true or not and spend thinking time on what does. In the end, any healing comes from the individual, don't expect to be fixed by a therapist, but use them as a guide to seeing things about yourself that you maybe cannot see. Lifetime problems are complex, so work at bit by bit, as layers dissolve away, new things will be revealed

kihira said:

I think that no one therapist is going to hit all the nails on the head, some will be right about some things and others wrong, so there's a need to ask if what they are saying rings true or not and spend thinking time on what does. In the end, any healing comes from the individual, don't expect to be fixed by a therapist, but use them as a guide to seeing things about yourself that you maybe cannot see. Lifetime problems are complex, so work at bit by bit, as layers dissolve away, new things will be revealed

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This sounds so reasonable, but when you add up all the therapy I've had it equals to roughly 14 years. Currently, I can't afford it anyway. I've been splurging lately, and even hired a private secretary. Nothing left over for therapy. But my mind keeps returning to it, mainly because of recent night terrors and my pathetic lack of social competence.

Earthcircle said:

I was in therapy for social anxiety, but therapists and psychiatrists may have had funny ideas about what my real problem was/is.

I am looking back at all this, years later. The bulk of my therapy was in my 20s when I lived in New York City, supposedly a good place to seek therapy. It all seems so pointless now. One therapist literally had me lying on a couch free associating about my childhood. This was very useful in making me feel awful, but I don't see how it made me more social. She said that I could only be social once my depression is cured. Well, is depression my problem? I've heard all sorts of things about what my problem is, including Asperger syndrome and -- believe it or not -- schizophrenia.

As for practice -- look, I'm pushing 50. I've had tons of practice. I'm just no good at it. The practice doesn't help.

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Let me begin by saying I'm sorry you've had to go through what you have. Reading into what was implied about your father, I'm guessing there's a lot of lingering issues there. Speaking to the other things, Asperger's or schizophrenia aren't out of the realm of possibilities. I mean, if continual experience interacting, or "practicing", with people hasn't made any progress then perhaps a behavioral/mental disability is blocking you from making any headway. I was once diagnosed with schizophrenia. And aside from my confessed social anxiety, I appear normal to others. So it's not entirely the caricature you see in the movies. Whatever wall you have that you can't seem to surmount, all I can think is to find a way around with as many options as you're willing to try. Have you thought about support groups? It's a way to meet people who at least have some understanding and empathy for these kinds of issues.

Xervello said:

Let me begin by saying I'm sorry you've had to go through what you have. Reading into what was implied about your father, I'm guessing there's a lot of lingering issues there. Speaking to the other things, Asperger's or schizophrenia aren't out of the realm of possibilities. I mean, if continual experience interacting, or "practicing", with people hasn't made any progress then perhaps a behavioral/mental disability is blocking you from making any headway.

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I would agree with that. But the irony is that a behavioral/mental disability is supposed to be what psychotherapy is for. I think I have an incurable condition, such as schizoid personality or ... Whatever. I don't know. I once had a psychiatrist who said that she couldn't diagnose me because my symptoms didn't fit any category very well. I respected that. She prescribed Anafranil, but my past reactions to drugs were so bad, I didn't have the courage to take it.

[/QUOTE] I was once diagnosed with schizophrenia. And aside from my confessed social anxiety, I appear normal to others. So it's not entirely the caricature you see in the movies. [/QUOTE]

I completely reject the diagnosis of schizophrenia. That's bull feathers.

[/QUOTE] Whatever wall you have that you can't seem to surmount, all I can think is to find a way around with as many options as you're willing to try. Have you thought about support groups? It's a way to meet people who at least have some understanding and empathy for these kinds of issues.[/QUOTE]

Maybe someday, but I would first have to achieve fluency in the local language. Even finding a therapist -- which I really can't afford -- would be difficult, because I would have to find one who speaks English.

And, by the way Xervello, I really like your responses. I don't mean to discount the responses of others. I'm not. But yours seem especially reflective, which is what I need.

I had one therapist who did not advise me to practice social skills. She said that I am not social because of depression. The depression must be cured first. Then I will be social. This is certainly a different approach, and I have to admit that practicing social interaction has never helped. She was a psychoanalyst; I was, seriously, lying on a couch when she told me this. That made the message even more striking, in a way. When you hear something lying down, it kind of passes over and through you in a way that might not be the case otherwise.