Hyper-Hydro

What makes you think your water is “hard” because you live in London? In fact the situation is the direct opposite: According to this report: http://www.dwi.gov.uk/pubs/annrep06/...l%20Report.pdf
from The Chief Inspector of Drinking Water Inspectorate, app. 85 % of the London water supply is SURFACE WATER, only app 15 % of Southern London has mixed water with surface water. This is very common in large metropolitan areas, where ground bores no longer keep up with the demand from millions of people. Surface water derives mainly from rain and thereby has very little mineral content. The only major source of minerals you´re likely to find in the water are probably chlorides added by the TMS to control biological residues. So your water is most likely NOT hard…if you had been living on a farm north west of London, having your own water bore, chances would be that your water was hard, but what does that mean? Many water works don´t even list the carbonate hardness, which is what´s interesting for iontophoresis. They merely list the calcium hardness, which most likely has no bearing on iontophoresis whatsoever. In fact there´s no mention of the carbonate hardness of your water in this report at all, maybe precisely because surface water usually has none or very little. You need to contact TMS and ask specificly about carbonate hardness for your local area in London. It´s a huge area as you know, so even if your water is coming from a mixed source, you won´t know about the actual content of HCO3-, unless you ask specificly about your location, because the volume of surface water mixed in fluctuates from season to season.

Although you may be as bored as Teandbisquits hearing about this, I suggest you try to add pure baking soda app. ½ a gram pr litre. Doing so, it´s necessary to check that your “baking soda” actually is 100 % HCO3- You also need to check on your power source, if the mA is stable throughout your ionto, finally I think it´s necessary to carry out your treatments consequently every day at a prolonged period e.g. 30 minutes atleast 10-15 days, before doing any sort of assessment whether it´s working or not. The effect of my ionto tipped over 100 % within just a few days after my tenth treatment. Manuals of different iontophoresis devices apparently differ on that quite a bit without describing why. I think it´s quite likely that many of the manufacturers have no idea whatsoever about why iontophoresis works. Skipping treatments definitely isn´t a good idea, because the objective is to build in aluminium ions into your sweat gland nerve receptors. Taking days off will only allow your skin to recuperate and discard superficial dead skin cells.

Theory:

A lot of people discuss what it is iontophoresis actually does to your sweat glands. To this day, noone really knows. I believe the aluminium ions are added to the outer skin, numbing or even killing the receptors in the sweat glands. After my first successful series of iontophoresis was concluded, I noticed a greyish tint to my feet, which they didn´t have before, seeming to indicate that the outer layer of dead skin cells may have been thickened somewhat by the iontophoresis. When aluminium is actually taken orally it will create anemia in the body and eventually kill us, which seems to support my theory about the receptors actually being killed. While you may think this doesn´t sound very nice, aluminium remains one of the most common substances on earth, and we eat lots of it every day, and walk around in it if we´re outdoors barefeet. The aluminium or iron ions involved with iontophoresis don´t actually enter your body, although they add themselves to your skin with the assistance of carbonate molecules e.g. from baking soda. The outer layer of your skin is actually dead in the first place, just as your finger nails and hair. The reason why you have to take maintenance treatments after your iontophoresis has been successful, is because your skin is continously re-constructing, and thereby wearing off the embedded aluminium ions.

I´m interested in the electrodes (which metal alloy), the construction of the power source of your Idrostar, as well as the manual that came with it. Is there any way you could scan the manual and post it as a pdf or jpg file somewhere for me to dnld?

Frank Zappa wrote:
"DON´T LET YOUR MEAT LOAF"
http://www.lyrics007.com/Frank%20Zap...%20Lyrics.html

SoulStar

Thanks for your reply Hyper-Hydro, appreciate it.

I rang up the UK customer service line for idrostar and they told me to try either Badoit or Vittel mineral water. They also mentioned the much touted bicarbonate of soda but they said that when doing both hands together, i should apply 2 teaspoons to one tray and then after the usual 10-15 minutes, i should swap hands in the trays but keep the polarity at 1.
They didn't recommend doing the treatment for 10 days straight...but that doesn't mean i have ruled that out as an option.

The last two sessions i had i managed to stay on 13mA for both hands.

In answer to your questions, the electrodes are made of stainless steel. I'm not too sure about the construction of the power source as it runs on 4 AA batteries...which i regularly changed during the treatment. Luckily for me, the exact manual i have is already available online here:

http://www.ajgruppen.no/brukerveiled...g_idrostar.pdf

Everywhere i read about ionto states that it's successful for 85% of people which is even more depressing. :(

Which ionto machine do you use and how well has it worked for you?

Hyper-Hydro

Thanks Soulstar

I have the Idromed 4 GS. It´s been a great relief for me, and I achieved complete dryness. The design of the ionto device itself is slightly different from yours, but very similar in function just as are all ionto devices. Basically the differencies are as follows: Idromed 4 is powered by an AC unit. It comes with a switch which allows you to take simultaneous treatment of hands and feet, without having an assistant, by placing both feet in one tray, one hand in the other, and putting in the other with it, after turning up the amperage to the value you can tolerate. After the treatment, I can take out one hand without getting shocked, and flip the device off with the switch, wait a few secs and then remove the other hand. This procedure I found quite time efficient, since my main problem is plantar and secondary palmar. It´s very puzzling that the Idrostar and Idromed4 manuals differ so clearly about the duration and frequency.

This is an exerpt from my manual:

If possible, the treatment should be performed once a day in the beginning. Treatment should last 10-15 minutes depending on the doctor´s orders (I haven´t found any doctors who even had a clue about this part of iontophoresis though :lol: ) Normally, after 10 treatments, a normal hydrosis level is reached and the skin moisture is normalized. After this, treatment is normally carried out once a week.

Actually, the dealer told me, that treatment might have to extend further than the 10 days before euhidrosis steps in. Neither Idromed 4 nor Idrostar manual mentions baking soda with as much as 1 word. The only device manual I found mentioning that baking soda could be necessary, is the Fischer MD1A, which costs app. the same as an Idromed 4, but which I rejected on the grounds that the therapy baths coming with the Fischer are hopelessly underdimensioned (would never work for my feet size 11), and simultaneous feet & hands treatment is not possible because the Fischer doesn´t come with a switch, plus the Idromed 4 is a portable design like the Idrostar. My feet went completely dry eventually just after the 10 nth treatment, just as the manual said, but I extended my treatments to 30 minutes, and kept the plus pole at the feet (on the recommendation by the dealer), instead of switching polarity.
Reading the Idrostar manual I can understand why people complain about burns/irritation on the sides of hands and feet. I pour in much more water, so the feet are covered all the way up to my ankles. Maybe you can improve efficiency in the Idrostar by enlarging therapy baths. What are the exact measurements of the Idrostar trays?

My Idromed 4 GS device came with stainless steel electrodes, immediately after I got mine, the factory decided to change the kit electrodes to much larger aluminium electrodes. I asked them why, and they answered that the "ionic density" of the new electrodes was much greater, thereby increasing efficiency, plus there are no nickel residues in aluminium. (some people can have allergic reactions to nickel) whereas all stainless steel is made with nickel. The dealer sent me a free set of aluminium electrodes. I wouldn´t let myself be depressed about statistics. Its amazing that Idrostar feel confident enough to promise normal hydrosis already after 4 treatments. You´re not the first Idrostar user feeling disappointed about that, I can tell you. Personally, I don´t really think they have the part about the frequency and total of treatments right, so don´t despair. Now you´ve found that your water can be improved, start again. E.g. follow the Idromed 4 manual instead (current is current) Please don´t force up the amperage to a painful level. It´s not at all necessary. You may experience that as your treatments progress, you can turn up the amperage a little bit, but I don´t think that´s very important, as long as your water has the required quality. I´m very puzzled about the fact that Idrostar don´t tell which is the plus pole or minus pole, since the effective electrode is the plus pole, but I guess since you have to switch poles anyway with Idrostar, the end result is the same I guess = dry hands The Idromed 4 PS is a version which automatically switches polarity, wheras I must switch polarity on my GS, but since my sweat problem is much worse at my feet, the difference in polarity efficience is actually a bonus for me. So the Idrostar customer service is now recommending Badoit? Looks like they may be reading my posts! :lol: (that water is too expensive though) Vittel has 402 mg/l Bicarbonate, only slightly more than my tap water, nowhere as much as Badoit at 1.300,- but if you want that density you can mix itt up with your own tap water and enough baking soda. All you need is a digital kitchen scale.

You´re welcome to ask any other questions. Good luck, and keep us posted.

Frank Zappa wrote:
"DON´T LET YOUR MEAT LOAF"
http://www.lyrics007.com/Frank%20Zap...%20Lyrics.html

HHzapp

...

woofytalk

I don't want to sound stupid here, so forgive my ignorance. You've made no mention of applying aluminum chloride clinical deodorants. Have you already used Drysol and Certain Dri directly on your hands? Have you tried this in conjunction with the Iontophoresis sessions?

Perhaps stacking treatments is the answer. Uses Iontophoresis, apply clinical deodorants and try Sage Tea capsules or Sage Tea soaking solutions.

I can imagine the frustration. I'm sorry for all this trial and error. Just know that one of these days, you figure out the right regimen.

Hyper-Hydro

[quote="HHzapp"]So I guess that's why when I followed the Idrostar manual, I got no results...?[quote]

No, but maybe your water doesn´t have the right combination of minerals, and maybe you didn´t carry on for long enough.

[quote="HHzapp"]And you're saying for the Idromed you have to do a whole 10 days without a break?!
I might try that with the Idrostar. :P[quote]

Well that´s what my manual says anyway, and 10 days may not be enough initially, according to the dealer (was for me though). It didn´t hurt me, so it won´t hurt you either.

[quote="HHzapp"] Also, do you recommend aluminium plates?
I have stainless steal ones which I got from the Idrostar and I have to use them upside down because one side of them are erroded already. :( [quote]

Mine work fine, stainless steel works also. Dr. Höenle says aluminium has "greater ionic density" Just brush the corrosion off with e.g. sandpaper or something else abrasive. They will corrode if the ionto works, but if they´re completely covered (typically positive pole will corrode faster than the minus) with rust, I magine ionto might be less effective.

[quote="HHzapp"]Where can you order new plates????
[quote] You can get Idromed 4 aluminium plates from Markus Bindner, but you may have to order cables also, because the Idrostar cables don´t seem to be identical.

Frank Zappa wrote:
"DON´T LET YOUR MEAT LOAF"
http://www.lyrics007.com/Frank%20Zap...%20Lyrics.html

dkurtz

I would have to agree with woofytalk in that combining treatments has improved my palmar dryness immensely. I initially saw very little 'lasting' results when using Drysol. Then, I gave that up and began treatment with Ionto. This helped to dry my hands, but not to a level that I feel comfortable.

It was only recently that I started to see big improvements when I combined Drysol with Ionto. So far its been about two weeks, so we'll see how long it lasts...

laz

thanks hydro your posts are very informative. I am curious though, I am about to make an investment into the PS device, however it might not be as effective as the GS device from what I deduce in your post. Is this true? What do you believe would be the best route gs or ps?

thanks

etsveteran

I think the PC device is better since you can tolerate higher current or voltage settings with it than with the DC device. At similar current or voltage settings, the DC device is slightly superior based on some material I have read online.

I had success with the HIDREX PC device, and just started testing the Idromed PC device.

I will post my results with Idromed on my site.

My HIDREX results are here FYI:

My Success With HIDREX Iontophoresis

http://www.no-ets.com/forums