Progress update ... there is hope

Scully1 · Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 3:54 pm Post subject: Progress update ... there is hope

Thanks to "Skog" and his idea of starting with 3 simple actions to counter avoidant behaviour I have made some progress. Here's what I've done and I hope this can help some others feel like there is light at the end of the tunnel.

1) I’ve enrolled in a night class (Spanish lessons) – good way to meet new people

2) I’ve started playing the piano again (I haven’t played in a little while) – try to release my “bottled up” emotions in a more positive way.

3) I discussed a few of my feelings with my mother and she said she would not stand in my way no matter what I decide. That said, I will still keep some of my future plans to myself, just to avoid her potentially trying to take control of the situation.

On the work scene: there have been some new hires over the last couple of months and so they are too new to be involved in the “gossip”. I have made a point of talking to them more frequently and went to lunch with a couple of them today.

I’ve started doing meditation in the morning – starting the day with positive thoughts. I say to myself “Whatever works out – that will be great. Things that don’t work out…I’ll just learn and move on quickly”. When we’re avoidant, I think sometimes we have to do the opposite of what we’re feeling. For example, I would have never spoken to the gentleman on the train…but I did and no matter what the outcome, I just feel better for having tried. He’s now on vacation…so I’ll have to wait and see.

I'm sure like anyone I'll have my difficult moments, but I feel more prepared to face the challenge of being less avoidant. Thanks for the encouragement and good luck to you all.

Here's how I was feeling last week :

I’m new to this forum and feel like a loser for going through what I am feeling. I’m a 38 yr old woman who has a successful career, a good, stable (routine) life with no apparent physical/financial problems. I’m told I have everything going for me (good general health / good looks / education / successful job / money etc.). My problem : I long for friendships, especially a love interest, but every time there is an opportunity, I “look the gifthorse in the mouth” and avoid contact. On the one hand there are women who aggressively pursue men and then there is me on the other hand who gets attention from men without making any effort, but instead of being receptive (nice & polite like I usually am), I “freeze”/shy away from the situation and come across like a snobby, unavailable “B”-- I don’t understand why. When this happens I then become upset with myself for avoiding the very thing I long for so desperately. There is no logical reason why I don’t have a “normal” life with a family of my own. The only person standing in my way is “myself”. I want to break out of this pattern of behavior, but just don’t know how.

Background : my mother was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic when I was 6 yrs old.…thankfully she has responded well to medication, but she herself is very avoidant/occasionally catatonic. My father has been the only stable force in my life, but has to dedicate a lot of time to helping my mother. Are my problems perhaps a result of my environment ? I have been to the doctor and a psychiatrist, but they offered no advice, although they showed concern that I have no romantic relations. They say that otherwise I am fine.

Work life : I am successful in my functions, but most of the office ignores me because a co-worker spread rumors about me and I have been unable to “undo the damage”. I refuse to run away from this situation because I love my work and the company and I won’t accept being bullied. I am determined to survive and overcome the negativity.

Personal/Home life : I still live with my parents, who are understanding but want to see me established. They worry about my future and feel it is a shame that I will be alone. I have no friends except my older sister (does not live at home). She is quite worried about me. There are many times she wants to ride the train home from work with me, but I choose to sit in a corner by myself. I met a nice guy on the train and we cross paths quite often. He has attempted to be nice to me and smiles/says hi, but I sense he realizes I’m avoidant, and so he too no longer approaches me…he has given up on the “pretty but snobby-looking” girl. I somehow believe he would still give me a chance and I wish I could fix things with him, but I don’t know how to begin changing my attitude and social behavior to accomplish this and other goals.

Does anyone out there understand or have any thoughts / suggestions ?

_________________
All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsion, habit, reason, passion, and desire.
-- Aristotle

Skog · Newbie User Joined: Jul 13, 2006 Posts: 68 Location: USA

That's great and congratulations, Scully 1. Perhaps another report in 2 weeks? I tend to be a complainer, so it's nice to also read some positive comments.

zeroday · Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:09 am Post subject:

are you talking about the Go Trains?

nobody ever talks to strangers, he probably has the hots for you.

random

Scully1,
I think Skog had a great idea and you put it to great use. I see a psychologist and she is trying to get me to do what you did - that is fill my life with some positives likeyou have.
In away there are some real similarities between us. I am much older than you (I'm 47) but I believe your description of your life is very simliar to mine at various times. I'll describe my situation and the improvement I am beginning to have. I hope something in here is useful. If nothing here sounds like something you can relate to - please don't be discouraged. I have seen people get help - I believe there is hope for everyone - you just gotta keep trying.
The following is wordy - my apolgies.
For the longest time, I believed I was shy or 'socially backward'. But eventually (OK - more like a few decades) I began to see that 'shy' is something that gets better with practice - and that I had some ways in which I was 'shy' and had some improvement. But there was a core set of issues behind the shyness that actually seemed to be getting worse. When I went to a psychologist over a family matter (unrelated - or so I thought - relationship with my sister) I did kind of ask "What's wrong with me - I end up avoiding any man I was attracted to" and can't attend public functions etc. The psychologist talked to me about it but eventually concluded there was "nothing wrong with me". I was probably about 38 about then. I was embarrassed that I asked - like I was some kind of hypochondriac psychologically - just imagining things were somehow wrong in my life. ( I did not try another therapist for about 4 years. ) In hindsight I realize that it was largely because psychologists often expect to encoutner an avoidant or socially withdrawn person who is withdrawn in everyway - and that I had developed some social skills and in particular, verbal ability in business setting (had to - to keep a job) and I was treating the visit with the psychologist like a business meeting. So highly developed skills in one area (articulate - to keep my job) concealed from the psychologist the truth of what I was SAYING....that I was afraid of any man I liked, I would avoid him etc, and I couldn't attend functions. When you show your admirable strength in what you posted here (not backing down etc.) I see a very good sign of your strength and esteem in that area - is it possible that this confused the psychiatrist and psychologist that you saw? Did they talk to you and note your strength and not really think you COULD really be avoident? Did they listen to how you coummincated more than what you communicated? I am just wondering - these thoughts crossed my mind when I read your post.

The next time I went back to a pschologist was when I became overwhelmed by the fact that I tried to attend a company dinner with about 12 people I liked workign with - but couldn't get out of the car when I got to the restaurant. This was a different psycholgist and he had a different style. He asked alot of quetsions about my family - in fact I found that annoying because I wasn't there to talk about my family - I wanted to be able to actually stay in the room around a man that I was attracted to - or go to a group function when I wanted to.
He said I had social anxiety. He went over my past with me in therapy. This took many months because I had alot of dysfunction in my past. My family had mental health issues, alcoholism, and a parent who died of cancer when I was 18. In general - times were tough and I did what I could to handle it all when I was growing up - just like everyone else, and I thought I had already handled all that and really didn't want to 'waste' time on it. But - because, in my past with my family, I 'needed' to take care of family members and others had emotional problems - I basically was storing emotions and experiences from the difficult past because there was nothing else to do with them - can't change reality, silently believing these old feelings meant something about me and how I made people feel (unhappy), knowing that everyone has had tough times and those were just mine, and leading a life that was strangely imbalanced. Parts of my life deceptively normal (I had some friends who never knew that I had any social anxiety at all - with men or social events - they just had a hard time believing me because SOME social skills were over developed in order to hide those many, and more important, social skills like trust, were completely absent)
So the therapy was about digging up the past with something of a baseball umpire (the psychologist) present to help keep the past I described 'fair'. He pointed out ways that I blamed myself for what I had no control over, guilt over other peoples behavior, lowered self esteem etc. He was also trying to help me feel those horrible feeligns I had before -so that this time I wouldn't store them (because what else could I do with them) Instead this time I would express them and let them go. No more pain and trauma storage - experience the anger and pain that there just was no time for before - and let it go. Alot of pain and anger was not logical, made no sense etc. He always said forcefully "IT DOESN'T MATTER! FEELINGS DON"T MAKE SENSE! THEY ARE JUST FEELINGS " His point was not expressing or letting go of feelings because they are irrational (a thought) does not get rid of the pain (a feeling). SO he coached how to dig up anger and pain, stop apologizing them, feel them, vent them, let them go. In the 2.5 years I saw him - my quality of life improved but my social behavior did not. I quit in anger a few times but I always went back. We reached apoint where he thought I was ready to ask a man out on a date. I assured him that it would be easier for me to climb the exterior of a glass walled high rise office building bare handed. I left counseling believing he had done all he could. THen, after a 6 month break, I went to another psycholgist. If I had not seen the prior counselor - I still would have had to cover all that same ground. The new counselor felt I had more to process (she didn't quite agree with the prior counselor that I was ready to overcome and date etc.). More of the same thing - (please don't be discouraged by all this time I spent in counseling - I just had alot of dysfunction) digging up pain/anger in the presence of a sympathetic, supportive umpire. After about 15 months with her - I suddenly began experiencing improvements in the social avoidance - I have been able to attend some social events, without the misery of fear and disappointment I always had. I am not cured but it's as if I had to peel through all the layers, enough layers, to finally begin getting past the social dread. I haven't been able to allow men to know when I am interested them - I can see my attitude is getting a little more daring but not my behavior. I believe I have more work to do there - trust, fear, etc. It will mean facing more of the pain in my parents married life, my having been molested, the few but negative dating experiences. I need to face the emotions or anger, let it go, get a fair, balanaced view. Seeing one area of my life - the oldest one (social fear) get so much better makes me believe that this area can get better too.
SOme books that have really helped me see things differently:
1. The Search for Significance (I'm Christian and this book finally helped me see how God thinks each of us is important and valuable.)
2. Boundaries ( there's two books by this name - both are good. The one whose author's last name is Cloud is from a Christian perspective - the other is not. The idea of social boundaries made me feel safer in social settings)
3. Where to draw the line (another book by one of the Boundaries authors)
4. Prisoners of Childhood ( I could only find this useful after I had gone through a few years of counseling) This book helped me see 'what went on' in my childhood between me and my mother that created a core of avoidant behaviors in me.
5. The Right To Innocence (a Christian book - helped me with self worth re: having been molested)
6. Healing the Shame that Binds You (helped me shed - through anger - some of the beliefs that family had placed on me).

I also did alot of writing - I would write to help me dig up the past - flush it out of my life. The male counselor I saw for 2.5 years used to have me write letters of anger/pain to family members - not for the family to ever read - but to read with him and experience the feelings and let them go. Digging up the the pain and anger (even when anger at someone like my father makes NO sense - hey it's not like my father WANTED to have emotional problems or become an alcoholic) pushed the negative out of my life and I am beginning to allow positive into my life in place of it. It's like I was an archive for old pain and struggles and I didn't want people to get close enough to me to a) see it in me or b) make me live it again with THEM.

Scully1 · Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject:

Thanks to everyone for their feedback...I'm impressed by how much support is available thru these forums. It's just great. Sorry I'm very busy at work and I might be a little slow in my updates, but you will definitely hear back from me asap.

In the meantime, Skog especially, I'd like to know how you're progressing.

I think we should always remember to be ourselves and count our blessings. There are so many unfortunate people in this world : some are hungry, blind, living in war zones etc. ...the stories are endless in the news...and no matter what person hardships we have been through we still have a chance for a brighter future. Maybe an idea for all of us is to make a list of what is positive in our lives (or what our dreams/goals are) and use that to develop the idea of the 3 step program Skog introduced.

Talk to you all later Smile

_________________
All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsion, habit, reason, passion, and desire.
-- Aristotle

SocialRetahd · Expert User Joined: Dec 02, 2006 Posts: 762

Girls average and above get a lot of attention. While guys who are PERFECT looking, are the only ones that get attention.

Skog · Newbie User Joined: Jul 13, 2006 Posts: 68 Location: USA

Scully1 · Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:26 pm Post subject:

I have just started reading a book called “Calm” by the well-known worry management expert Denise Marek. She gives a 4-step process, which is supposed to help stop worrying about what others think, eliminate self-limiting beliefs, develop greater inner peace, put an end to "what if" thinking, and transform fear into action. As well, she describes how to let go of the need for perfectionism, regain excitement for life, and restore peace of mind. It is a book geared towards women, but I’m sure there are good tips for everyone who is avoidant. I’ll try to pass on anything I learn from this book that might be useful to you all.

As for Skog, you gave me that “spark” I needed to pick myself up and go forward. I desperately needed just one word of encouragement and you (a stranger on an Internet forum) provided me more than people close to me could. I hope to be able to help you in return. As for your friends…I’m sure they don’t mean any harm…people are not always in tune with others and (or) just don’t know how to approach the situation. Don’t wait for them to “bail you out”. Think about making new friends and doing things that fulfill your day. What do you like to do in terms of hobbies/sports etc? Perhaps it could mean joining a bowling team, a photography club … there are a million and one “clubs” to suit everyone’s personality. Just give it some thought and keep us/me posted. My Spanish lessons start in a couple of weeks…and I’m looking forward to it.

The work situation has improved drastically for me…one woman even came by my desk today and apologized for everything that has happened. I was surprised/happy/and felt more like part of the group. It’s been a long time since I’ve felt even remotely like that. I guess a little effort goes a long way.

As for the gentleman on the “Go Train”…well he’s back from holiday today…so I’ll have to keep my chin up and give it my best shot.

TTYL

_________________
All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsion, habit, reason, passion, and desire.
-- Aristotle

moonbow76 · Newbie User Joined: Aug 04, 2007 Posts: 7

This thread is exactly what I needed to read right now. Smile

I've really been thinking that there's absolutely nothing I can do about myself, that therapy could never help me, etc, etc....it's nice to hear that positive changes can be made.

miguy · Newbie User Joined: Oct 12, 2007 Posts: 23 Location: MI

hi scully,

i wonder how do u stay so positive?

have you had it affect you in very minimal kind of way? i mean, i'm 29 and i feel like my life is over, it's ruined and destroyed and i only was just diagnosed. for me, the toughest is knowing that i missed out on all the past experiences, oppostunities and, well, everything...my mind just never caugh up with my age. i have no motivation, ambition or any way of understanding much of anything about me and how i fit into the world...i guess i'm just lost. have you experienced this?

any suggests, ideas of what works or not?...i'm due to go back to therapist in few weeks for treatment, but i'm not optimistic because it's just "talk" therapy and nothing that will correct or reverse all the stuff i missed out on.

thanks.