On topic I can say without-a-doubt it is the greatest and most important thing anyone can do in their lifetime, that is learning about him in the first place.
I have always since a child knew there was something 'more' to this world and indeed, life, I felt or rather knew this but also could not grasp or understand it... liken it to blindness, I could touch and stumble but by no means see it.
As I understand more every passing day it brings me closer to Jehovah (from what I know is the english pronceation for his name, for god is but a title). Look, we all know the horror stories and we all understand that prehaps every single religion seems to do things as it benefits themselves, (Christendoms choice in strict commandments for example *cough*).
This world we live in? It says in the bible it is controled by Satan the devil, the angel who decided to oppose god. Now could you deny this? I understand many disagree with basic bible truths but still agree with the moral side of it... is that not hypocritical? Every *single* thing in the bible corrisponds with what is happening this very day, it does not lie, it has not fiction and indeed speaks nothing but the truth, it is as they say it, gods word. Those who disagree bluntly put need study it themselves.
It is true that fear of man is one of the Devils key tools in his system, SA? I feel it is a mixture of this and simple sensitivity, this compounds over time into the deeper problems that many who browse these forums are afflicted with.
Consider also that we are imperfect to the likes of the master teacher Jesus Christ who embodied and represented the perfect human many years ago, to Adam who while perfect was decieved along with his wife Eve into betraying the living god Jehovah.
A friend likened it to a recorded tape, where as the orginal was flawless over time the copies are slowly loosing quality. This is inherited sin as it says in the bible, death and the sicknesses afflilated with mankind. Adams seed inherited death and through him we are alive today. (thusly born of sin).
Prescious I do not understand what you mean in that everything has a spirit, from what I have learned 'spirit' is the very essence of life, that was used in the creation of Adam and Eve and with all living creatures that inhabit earth. It is true the world is designed to bring mankind down of course. Along the lines of church, it is good to affliate with fellow Christians, however you should be careful of who you stand with.
To those who think religion or god for that matter is false, well I not long ago thought the same, but... I see it as less of religion we see nowdays and more of simple fact. One could argue all day between things they do not know about and still think they are in the right, for it is just that. If the world WANTS us not to find out the truth untwisted, then why call it false? Who are we truly to know of these things hidden?
I am not the most dedicated and most certainly not the most knowledgable, however, these things I have learned, these... facts... cannot be refuted, it is both frightening because of the change and both enlightening to know... the benefit by far is more than I could of possibly imagined. I need not explain myself to those who seek nothing but soft spots to attack... for they simply do not know, and grasp at the flesh and system for support.
Unfortunatly humble people are few and far between in this world, so anything even remotely different from what they have been born into usually causes prejustice and false claims.
_________________ Intellectual honesty is characterized by a readiness to scrutinize what one believes to be true, and to pay sufficient attention to other evidence available
Ok on the topic of 'why does god allow suffering' .
Think about this, the average human lives... oh 60-70 years correct? Now spread out false information over many hundreds of years, who are WE to know right from wrong and false from truth? Truly?
What if we are actually born into an age very different from what was destined to be. What if we was to live forever and suffering was non-existant?
Now if I lived forever and was indeed born into a super cool no suffering world who is to question depravity and war? Sure we are told its bad but really where is the proof in this? What is stopping me should I be tempted?
This world, this timeline, is the all proof. It says so in the bible, sovereignty, God has withheld full justice for the time it takes Satan to mess up the world so bad in the future we all know God is the rightful leader (Satan's claim is that Jehovahs followers only served him because of the rewards) In light of this, there is many true christians serving God in these most trying of times, fully against the Devil and his claims.
(woo double post(too big really for edit)).
_________________ Intellectual honesty is characterized by a readiness to scrutinize what one believes to be true, and to pay sufficient attention to other evidence available
Last edited by Doomed2Die on Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:40 am; edited 2 times in total
Psychedelicious? This may sound bad, but I truly mean you no harm, dude. If you are not an attractive person, compared to say a celebrity, or maybe even a whole group of them, does that really make you ugly, period? Heck, no! Lots of people have things wrong with them. I do. My nose was broken when I ran cockeyed & stupid into a wooden gazebo post. Since then, I have had a little bump on one side, while the other is smooth and perfect. But perfect compared to what?? Those celebrities again? Not necessarily. If I consider that as being perfect, then yes. The left side of my nose is perfect. And my right, well, I soooo want a nose fix so I can be just like those celebrities. heh. No, not really. My bumpy nose is something I've come to be okay with.
Did you know Dr. Phil started going bald when he was 12? Yep. Some people think he would be an ugly bastard after that. Maybe even him, too. But his wife never thought so. And I'd bet that because of her positive, or maybe in more common cases like this, her NEUTRAL influences, that he's perfectly okay with being bald, too. Indeed so. I don't want to lose my hair, but if my fiance will show me she will be okay with it, then I believe I will be eventually, also.
Basically, everyone has an interpretation of what is beautiful and what is ugly. If you don't measure up to a celebrity or someone of the like, as most of us don't, then try meeting people who come up just as "short" as you feel you do. Whoa, I think I just realized the moral to Shrek.
Quote:
Think about this, the average human lives... oh 60-70 years correct? Now spread out false information over many hundreds of years, who are WE to know right from wrong and false from truth? Truly?
This is how you know:
If it promotes the survival of life, then it's fundamentally good. If it in ANY WAY deters or hinder that process, then it's fundamentally bad. Why? Ever wondered what the meaning of life is? It's to live. See ya!
In the same vein as 'perfect' how do you account for cancer? Or any other illness in today's current world? From what I learned cancer was scarce not too long ago.
It is the atrophy of humanity, death age and sickness, we all know things do not get 'better' they get worse, this is not a evolution theory. With that said why is it unreasonable to consider that there was at one time a perfect human?
Quote:
This is how you know:
If it promotes the survival of life, then it's fundamentally good. If it in ANY WAY deters or hinder that process, then it's fundamentally bad. Why? Ever wondered what the meaning of life is? It's to live. Very Happy See ya!
An appealing arguement that I once also held dear to. But its easy to dismiss things off as confusion, and some to the ideals of a few choice men, easy to agree that sure, mankind messed up and continue to because thats simply mankind. I reached my understanding by asking why and looking for answers, personally what I know is only a scratch on the surface, but the truth and fact nonetheless, this is unrefutable and at the time a gigantic thing to wrap the head around. Things are not quite as simple as you seem to believe and indeed not as I used to believe also.
Outside the box, I am but nigh insignifant in the face of true history, what gives me the right to claim I personally know better? Especially one who is born into a system such as this (if you take that into account)? This world promotes individualism and pride, direct and polar opposites in what God teaches. Just one in many things that are directly against him, things that laughably are just there because of that, its against god. This sealed my belief... facts sealed my belief not blind faith.
_________________ Intellectual honesty is characterized by a readiness to scrutinize what one believes to be true, and to pay sufficient attention to other evidence available
Joined: Jan 02, 2005 Posts: 461 Location: Australia
Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:51 am Post subject: Re: What about GOD, Can he help?
Prescious wrote:
What do you guys think? Do you think that God can help us?
I mean I grew up in the church and all but at the same time, I also grew up
in a dysfunctional family as well. But in anycase, I grew up in the church and the bible teaches that what we are dealing with is not flesh and blood but it is an evil spirit. But although I believe that what we are dealing with is indeed an evil spirit, I still have not seen any improvement. So that makes me believe that the church DOES NOT have it all right. And that prayer IS NOT enough. That we have to actually do something to help ourselves on top of prayer. Maybe take some prescribed medications, like what I am on. I am currently taking Zoloft for depression and anxiety and Seroqual for Bipolar anxiety. Maybe try to do some positive thinkings or something. I don't know but all I know is that from my experience, prayer is not enough. What about you guys? Has anybody had any success
with God and prayer and church by itself?
Hi Precious,
I do not believe that the particular problem of S.A.D. is directly related to the presence of a "bad spirit" and as such is not something which is likely to be cured in an immediate action by God, although some assistance can be obtained in the short term.
However, I know that the problem can be cured by Him in you with time and prayer using a more indirect approach.
Thing is that SA is symptomatic of our egos - our very selves - and the extent of the problem is mostly dependant upon such elements as pride.
If our level of pride is reduced, so the effect of SA diminishes in our lives, i.e. if you not concerned with how others view you, you will not suffer from SA.
Thus,
1. you can obtain healing from God with time and prayer and persistence; &
2. You may also benefit in the short term by praying for guidance, comfort and help in not worrying about what others think of you.
I hope that is not too confusing and I hope that it is of some help.
Joined: Aug 30, 2007 Posts: 327 Location: south park, colorado
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:42 am Post subject:
Doomed2Die wrote:
It is the atrophy of humanity, death age and sickness, we all know things do not get 'better' they get worse, this is not a evolution theory. With that said why is it unreasonable to consider that there was at one time a perfect human?
I doubt it. The Bubonic Plague wiped out 1/3 of Europe's population, and there are likely similiar epidemics throughout history. Diseases have been around since the beginning of time. I don't believe they were not as bad hundreds of years ago. It's God's way of population control.
Joined: Aug 30, 2007 Posts: 327 Location: south park, colorado
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:47 am Post subject:
Psychedelicious wrote:
No. If god was so great he wouldn't of made me look like this, or have extreme social phobia. As of what I see in my opinion, church basically just tells us what horrible people we are and what is wrong with us. No help. No help at all.
The other way you can look at it is God didn't curse you with cancer or a horrible disease. People often forget things like social phobia in the face of death. I've known people that are crippled in wheelchairs who never look at why they are in wheelchairs. They are just happy to be alive!
You must be attending some horrible church. From the services I have went to, it's mainly preaching about helping people less fortunate, and forgiving others of their misdeeds.
I doubt it. The Bubonic Plague wiped out 1/3 of Europe's population, and there are likely similiar epidemics throughout history. Diseases have been around since the beginning of time. I don't believe they were not as bad hundreds of years ago. It's God's way of population control.
You may want to check up on that, look around even, you say deaths from sickness have remained static over the ages? What about AIDS/HIV? That never was as big as it is now, there is always sickness yes... but the years keep scaling it up. Inherited disease even is much more bigger than in previous generations. Again, I liken it to a copied tape. There is no way things are getting better and the line between 'static' and 'worse' is not so fine.
Besides you say you know god? It says in the bible things will get worse and sickness will claim more intill the end of this system (namely, the battle of Harmaggedon), does not one of the horsemen in revelations symbolise sickness?
_________________ Intellectual honesty is characterized by a readiness to scrutinize what one believes to be true, and to pay sufficient attention to other evidence available
"Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; Or he can, but does not want to; Or he cannot and does not want to. If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. But, if God both can and wants to abolish evil, then how come evil is in the world?" - Epicurus
"One might be asked "How can you prove that a god does not exist?" One can only reply that it is scarcely necessary to disprove what has never been proved." - David A. Spitz
_________________
Fear not at all; fear neither men nor Fates, nor gods, nor anything
be thou therefore without fear for in the heart of the coward virtue abideth not.
Joined: Aug 30, 2007 Posts: 327 Location: south park, colorado
Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:01 am Post subject:
Doomed2Die wrote:
kyle wrote:
I doubt it. The Bubonic Plague wiped out 1/3 of Europe's population, and there are likely similiar epidemics throughout history. Diseases have been around since the beginning of time. I don't believe they were not as bad hundreds of years ago. It's God's way of population control.
You may want to check up on that, look around even, you say deaths from sickness have remained static over the ages? What about AIDS/HIV? That never was as big as it is now, there is always sickness yes... but the years keep scaling it up. Inherited disease even is much more bigger than in previous generations. Again, I liken it to a copied tape. There is no way things are getting better and the line between 'static' and 'worse' is not so fine.
I'm not sure about that. 40 million people have HIV. There are almost 7 billion people on earth. That means the HIV infection rate is 0.6% in the world. You have to compare it to the plague which wiped out 25% of the world's population. There is no comparison. Diseases killed more people before the 20th century. The life expectancy rate is at an all-time high.
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No, not really. My bumpy nose is something I've come to be okay with. 
Whoa, I think I just realized the moral to Shrek. 
See ya!
