= Grrr! Maybe you should consider a lot of us have a valid history that makes us this way quote]
Not having a go. Just wondering. If someone has SP but it wasn't caused by any trauatic events, does that mean it is somehow less valid?
Of course not and nothing I said meant that. Its all very valid and very real. I live with this shit everyday and wouldn't wish it on anyone and post that basically say snap out of it and this condition doesn't exist really piss me off. No one chooses to have this whether you can identify the cause or not.
I understand and agree with some of it, but mostly it's an oversimplification.
As far as I know, people with SA can still be rational people. I, for one, know that my fear is irrational and irrelevant, but that does not mean I can just push it aside or ignore it. I never think about what other people think of me on purpose.
Sometimes it's just stronger than I am at a given time.
There is no quick fix. No miracle drug. No all-powerful way of thinking that just solves your problems. Just tiny steps towards greater comfort, and eventually, perhaps recovery. For me, the first of those steps have been exercise and sunlight. With depression out of the picture, I stand a better chance at fighting my social phobia.
I think people just over analyzed justinzerofive post which makes him like he's over assuming things.... but the point is what he just really wanted to say is that Social Anxiety's main cure will only come from us. And what he did is to give us an awareness on what causes our Social Anxiety. And if you'll think about it, our main problem is actually on how we perceive ourselves in relation to other people... THAT'S WHY IT'S CALLED SOCIAL ANXIETY... it'll always be related with other people.
And I don't think he meant to say that knowing this will make it cure our Anxiety that fast because the real question here is: "DO YOU HAVE THE GUTS/ COURAGE TO IMPROVE/CHANGE THAT NEGATIVE PERSPECTIVE AND ACT IT OUT?"... and I'm sure taking that step will be a gradual process.
So all in all he just shared his experience to help us people.
I do not believe that people with SA are any more "self-centered" than anyone else. I believe that description is inaccurate. It would be more proper to say that SA people are reacting to perceived "threats" and are retreating into a "protective mode". We are all born with the instinct for self-preservation. Whenever we perceive a threat to our physical, mental or emotional well-being, our "fight or flight" mechanism kicks in and we react in ways that are meant to preserve our life. In a normal person, a "real" threat might be a lion stalking them. The normal reaction would be to find a safe place to get away and avoid being eaten. In an SA person, the alarm system may be different than the "average" persons. Their alarm goes off in situations in which they feel threatened by people, and they react in a way in which they are trying to protect their physical, emotional and mental well-being. The "average" person looking at the situation might say there is no threat - but to the SA person, the threat is very real. It might be a threat to their self-esteem, or their identity as a person. To react by trying to protect themselves is not "self-centered" in the sense of being selfish and not caring about or focusing on others. It is no more selfish than the "normal" person who runs from the lion. Therefore, I find "self-centered" an inaccurate and unkind term to describe people with SA.
Joined: Mar 21, 2008 Posts: 25 Location: Near Bedford
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject:
I get what you are saying Scoutabout. Most of us would like to be able to do more than we do. And it is certainly true that we are held back by an 'abstract' kind of social fear that probably relates physiologically to the more rational fear of physical harm.
However
I think you and justinzerofive are arguing at cross purposes.
The social anxiety itself is not synonymous with self-centredness as you say, but I don't think this is justinzerofive's point.
All problems, not just social anxiety, but ALL problems, can be faced Or avoided. If you DON'T EVEN TRY to make progress, once you understand your problem, this is when it becomes selfish.
It's self-centred when you are not TRYING to contribute
And it's self-centred because your thoughts, feelings, and behaviors are directed inwards at your own 'protection', rather than outwards at what can help others, or to how they feel.
The philosopher Immanuel Kant believed that we should behave as if our actions were universal. In other words, if we all give up, nothing will be achieved. The human race will just die out. We have a DUTY to try and contribuite, for the sake of everyone else.
Nobody with social anxiety is callous. There is no malicious intent involved when e.g. not showing up to a friend's party ect. But the choice is self-centred, and especially if it means something to that friend for you to be there.
Chiaroscuro - I did not even delve into "choice" (per your last paragraph). And I do not equate the "disease" or "condition" of SA with self-centeredness. One does not have to have SA to be self-centered. I explained the responses one has with SA really have nothing at all to do with self-centeredness. It has to do with perception of a threat and, in turn, a response to that threat, which can be an autonomic response. (In other words, we don't really think about the response - we just react, such as we do when jumping out of the way of a speeding car). This is as far as I went in my argument above. You have really taken the argument further than I did. I could have carried it further, indeed was ready to, but you have actually made some of the points I was going to make, although in your own way, of course. Your argument about "choice" and "responsibility" has merit, but only after someone has become fully aware of and understands their "disease" or "condition". One cannot make responsible choices without self-awareness and understanding. My intent in the above argument was to point out what I think is happening with the behavior of people with SA. My opinion is based upon having SA (once severe, now less so) and also my studies of psychology at my university. Once someone understands why they act the way they do, then they have the information to begin to make reasonable and responsible choices. Now you might say people also have the choice to try and understand why they act the way they do. But the thought never occurs to some people! Sometimes it takes others to help them see that. And that is what I believe this website is about, understanding and helping others - and ourselves.
Joined: Jan 07, 2007 Posts: 582 Location: Lincolnshire
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:01 am Post subject: Re: This might upset some people.
justinzerofive wrote:
Im not insulting anybody. Hell Im this way to. But you have to do what you have to do. Be focused on making money or finding a career. Something important, not about what someone thinks about you. So what if you look dumb or stupid or a slob or lazy or unattractive. No one elses but your own and maybe your families really matters in the end. The world is a cold world. People will use you. If they think your vulnerable theyll use it to your advantage.
The choice is up to you. Obviously, your plan didnt work if your still here. Why not give it a shot. Why not go a day not thinking about what people think of you? Because thats really all the problem is whether we like it or not.
Well firstly, not to be nasty, but you've made a very obvious point here.
The main source of our anxiety is that we fear what people think about us. That's a given, so if you've only just discovered that one then you're a wee bit behind.
It's fine to just say "oh, go a day without thinking about what people think of you" but this is exactly what us SA sufferers find it so hard to do. That's why, among other things, we have social anxiety!
If it was as easy as that we'd all be cured.
I often have days where I just think fuck it, I don't care anymore, but as soon as I step outside, my new attitude disappears and all I feel is fear and vunerability.
I don't think anybody here is under an illusions that their anxiety will simply vanish...we're here to talk to like-minded people about our problems, and to share thoughts and ideas and give each other support.
Not everybody is actively trying to cure their anxiety all of the time, and that's perfectly fine. We're just here to talk and feel safe and accepted around people who are not dis-similiar to us.
So please, don't post this useless rubbish, because it's been said many times before, and no doubt will be said many times again. It doesn't help anybody it only causes trouble.
We all know what we have to do to overcome our anxiety, it's having the actuall gall to do it that's the problem.
Sorry to be so harsh, but i've read so many threads like this.
_________________ Devon x
~ "I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad, the dreams in which i'm dying are the best i've ever had" ~
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