Joined: Apr 28, 2008 Posts: 41 Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:33 pm Post subject:
HideNSeek wrote:
I've also never had a girldfriend. What infuriates me even more than that is that I've had offers, and have rejected them because I was just too afraid. The last offer I had was from a girl I didn't know especially well, but I knew her enough to chat too her.
Anyway, this is about 3 or 4 years ago now, and she had apparently had a crush on me for years at school. She asked me out, and I was very afraid of the situation. Firstly because I didn't know how to act around her or what to do socially (like where to take her on dates and stuff, how often or not often should I try to arrange some kind of date, or phone her, or text her, etc). The second reason was a horrible one, and it was I was afraid of what other people would thing of me being with her. Would people wonder what I saw in her? Would they wonder what she saw in me?
I feel really bad about it. What makes it worse is the way I reacted, I gave a very cold and hard "no, I'm not interested".
Even worse than that is she tried again - I think she actually understood about how I was probably very worried and anxious - yet I did the same thing again, and I think I said something nastyish about her to her best friend that I didn't mean. It sucks because she was a really nice girl, and I feel shitty more for the way I treated her than the way I treated myself.
I don't think how attractive you are really matters if you have social anxiety. I'm well aware that I'm a pretty good looking guy, but it doesn't matter. Girls will approach me randomly occassionally - I've had some very uncomfortable situations where women have pretty obviously been coming onto me randomly in public places, unprovoked. It scares me to death, especially if they comment on certain tells that I'm nervous such as when I start sweating a lot or avoid eye contact, etc.
Really though, looks don't matter. If you have the confidence to get a girlfriend you will. First impressions don't really count I don't think in this area.
Firstly, I am sincerely sorry to hear about your situation and I hope that you will overcome your SA.
However, I must respectfully disagree that looks don't matter, they DO in most cases, I am sorry but I have observed women (in social situations) engaging with the more handsome men 99.99% of the time. whilst rejecting the average or ugly men. And it had nothing to with that rather overused word "confidence", it all came down to pure physical attraction and lust, nothing else.
Firstly, I am sincerely sorry to hear about your situation and I hope that you will overcome your SA.
However, I must respectfully disagree that looks don't matter, they DO in most cases, I am sorry but I have observed women (in social situations) engaging with the more handsome men 99.99% of the time. whilst rejecting the average or ugly men. And it had nothing to with that rather overused word "confidence", it all came down to pure physical attraction and lust, nothing else.
That might be true to some extent. However, I think I'm average-looking (or maybe slightly above average), yet I'm usually so incredibly anxious in social situations that no girl would ever speak to me, let alone date.
My point is when you're extremely anxious you appear very unattractive, even if you're good looking. This is what happens to me all the time. I often notice that people get uncomfortable around me. Except on days I feel good.
Don't get me wrong, I still agree with you that looks are important too. To some girls more than to others of course, since it always depends on the individual.
Joined: May 06, 2008 Posts: 4 Location: In a boat on a river
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:15 pm Post subject:
Hey guys. I'm so glad I recently found this forum. Anyway, I too have this problem. I am 20 years old and currently attending college. It's the same routine for me everyday. I see a couple walking down the sidewalk as they pass me, and it makes me a little more frustrated everyday. I have never had a girlfriend. I never really worried about it until I got into college, when all of a sudden my couple of friends started going out on dates. While I was happy for them, I was really starting to feel hopeless. Oh well, maybe one day it'll happen. Good luck to all of you.
Joined: Apr 28, 2008 Posts: 41 Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject:
dpr wrote:
Wow! I am new here, and am very glad I found this forum, especially now that I am reading this very interesting thread. So many of you gave lots of very profound input on this subject which made me think a lot.
Now I don't mean to sound like a conceited dick that "knows how to pick up girls," and in any case I don't think anyone really knows "the secret" because every girl is different, so to think there is some 100% foolproof way to pick up girls is ridiculous. But for what it's worth, I am now 30 years old, and I have had quite a few girlfriends. Haven't kept count, but somewhere over 10, I think, and I have a girlfriend now who I've been with for almost 4 years. Who knows, maybe she's "the one." Dunno.
I didn't always have Social Phobia. All through grade school, I was the class clown, in high school I started playing guitar, formed a band, and we toured. So of course, all the drinking, drugs and women were all there right in my face. After high school, the band broke up, but I still was able to meet girls. The truth is I HAD to, because I am somewhat of a sex addict. (Add that to my SP and OCD, and I'm quite the character lol)
I still don't know if I'm actually a "sex addict" or a "love addict," all I know is I feel worthless if I don't have a girlfriend. I am bisexual, or was, to be honest I don't even know anymore since my current monogamous relationship is confusing my brain, and my sexual orientation and addiction has ruined a few of my relationships. Fortunately now, I have a gf who understands my situation (sort of, at least she tries to understand).
I guess my SP started around high school and got worse while I was in college until I started seeing a therapist. Even though I have SP, most of my problems are with strangers and people in groups, but it has not really affected my "ability" (if you want to call it that) to "pick up" (if you want to call it that) women. I think this is because I have always had female friends, even when I was little, and have valued friendships of females more than males, found them easier to talk to, get along with, etc.
So, this is just a stupid rambling post, but I guess my advice if I have any is that when you are talking to women, try not to engage in all-or-nothing thinking like "Oh man, she's talking to me, if I lose her attention she'll find me boring and leave and then I'll never get laid." Try not to think of her as a potential lay, but as a friend. Just make friends with her. Don't compliment her on her looks or ask her out for coffee, just say hi. Ask her how she's doing. Try to connect with her on some level. Don't give her anything to reject! (i.e. "Would you like to go out with me?" etc.)
And be honest. If you're nervous tell her, "I feel nervous." Hell, tell her "I feel nervous and anxious around certain people, especially girls. So don't think I'm a weirdo, I'm just a little uncomfortable sometimes." I think you'd be surprised how many girls would be okay with that, and find it courageous that you said it.
If it is really hard for you to talk with a girl face to face, then why not try myspace of facebook? (I think someone mentioned this already). You can take as long as you want to think of something nice/witty/funny to say, and she can get to know the real you inside. Of course, one day you'll have to meet and you'll be nervous, but likely you'll be so excited to meet her it won't matter!
I feel kind of bad that so many of you guys said that "Girls always go out with assholes/thugs/dickheads while us nice guys get nothing."
I think I am a genuinely nice guy and I have had many girlfriends but I don't think it was because I mistreated them. I treated them like people.
Now here's the thing. And again, I'm not trying to be a dick. But there is such a thing as TOO NICE. I've seen it before, and girls hate that shit.
Examples of being too nice: Complimenting the girl a hundred times, giving her flowers after you've only gone out with her like 3 times, telling her "I miss you" too much, saying "I love you" too soon.
I think good advice would be: don't try to be nice, just be honest. Respect her but don't patronize her with insincere compliments. Don't be selfish, and don't smother her. Just be cool.
I think a lot of girls tend to feel like they can take advantage of a guy who is "too nice" because they know you will always be around and they could get you at the drop of a hat. I'll admit this isn't a nice thing for a girl to do, but some girls are like that. They don't care about your feelings at all, but instead are content to keep you around as a "last resort" kind of guy while callling you her friend.
You are better than this, and you deserve better. You deserve someone who respects you and a girl who treats you this way does not respect you. You have, while being nice and civil, let girls know from the get-go that you are not a sidekick or a backup. You're a person, and you shouldn't be treated like a doormat.
I think it may also be possible that a lot of you guys are looking in the wrong places. It's kind of like those girls who go on Speaker's Corner and ask where all the good men have gone, and you can tell by their clothes and makeup that they have just come from a club.
Out of all my relationships with women only, the worst ones have been women I've met in a bar or at work. The best ones have been women I've met through friends, and online (I met my current gf on myspace).
It is true that some girls do like thugs or assholes, but those girls are usually stupid. Sometimes hot, but always stupid. There are a lot of smart, real girls out there who want smart, real men.
I feel like I have to say something. Having a girlfriend won't solve all of your problems. It won't give you more confidence or alleviate your anxiety. You'll have someone to talk to, but if you unload too much of your bullshit on her, she'll get sick of it and leave. Your problems are still yours, and you still have to solve them on your own, gf or no gf.
I can't believe I wrote this much, I just felt like I should write you guys after reading all 5 pages of this thread and the wonderful thoughts and opinions.
I'll tell you a story then.
My friend has bad OCD, way worse than me. And he is also agoraphobic (means he refuses to leave his house). Back when I was going out with this other girl, we'll call her L, I once brought her over to meet my friend and L brought her friend, A. So A met my friend, and she pretty much fell in love with him. My friend is not good-looking (he is actually pretty overweight), some people tell him he smells (which he does at times, because he doesn't shower that often because he never goes out), he does not dress "well" (though I personally think fashion is stupid, but no one would ever refer to him as a great dresser, he wears plaid shirts and jeans), and at the time he was 26, unemployed, didn't own a car or a driver's license, and was living with his parents. He has little to no social skills, but he is funny when he wants to be, and a great writer. "A" fell in love with him, and just in case you were wondering, "A" was/is gorgeous. Smart, sexy, funny, she is all those things and more.
They spent more and more time together and at one point, my friend told me that A had propositioned him. She said that she would like to be his girlfriend, but under one condition. He has to come outside. "A" liked going places, she was big partier and had lots of friends, and said she couldn't be one of those people who just sits at home all day.
My friend turned her down. "A" was really hurt and doesn't talk to him much anymore (nor I, but that's because I broke up with L who was her best friend, yadda yadda yadda).
Later, my friend told me that he wasn't just afraid of leaving his house, part of the reason he didn't want to be her boyfriend is that he knew she wasn't a virgin and would want to have sex, and he was embarrassed about his body.
I wish the story had a happy ending but it doesn't. He had his chance, and he fucked it up. Now all he has to look forward to is another chance, and hope that he doesn't fuck it up again.
Don't be like my friend. You only live once. I know it's hard, but you can't just give up. I don't mean to sound like Tony Robbins or anything, but if you want it, you can get it. I truly believe that.
Good luck you guys, and sorry for rambling so much. I'm a writer too.
Hi dpr, and thank you for taking the time to write such an interesting post.
Firstly, I happy to hear that you have been successful at attracting women, and that you are a nice guy as well. However, your situation is much different to us "love-shy" guys who have either never ever had a girlfriend like me (I am 39), or guys who have had very few girlfriends.
By your own admission you have stated that you got off to a good start with women, and as such this would have given you great confidence as you experienced success at attracting women on a regular basis.
The story is much for different for ugly/average looking guys like me, who have tried very hard to meet women (I have tried everything ie.face to face approaches, the internet, speed dating, singles functions, placing advertisements in the personals column), and so far I have a 100% failure rate, that's right I have approached hundreds of girls, and have been rejected every single time. What do you think that would do to person's self esteem and self confidence?? It fucking destroys it, as rejection hurts, and anyone who saids rejection doesn't hurt is a liar. I am no quitter, but even the toughest person has their breaking point, and it gets to the stage where you quit trying out of sheer frustration and despair.
I know what you are thinking, you probably think that my "standards" are too high, and that I only approach smoking hot women ie.women who rank a 9 to 10 out of 10 on the looks scale. Well guess what??, I very rarely if ever approach hot looking women, as they way out of my league and I would get rejected by them anyway, so I would be wasting my time even thinking about it. And in any case I more interested in the quality of a woman's character and personality, not her looks.
With regards to acting "too nice", no, I don't drown any woman I may be interested in with excessive compliments, or try to "buy" their love with gifts. Nor have I ever told a woman that I "love her". I just treat women with respect and kindness, and when I do get rejected, which is what happens anyway, I don't get mad, I just quietly walk away. At the end of the day, I just act myself, and I don't pretend to be someone I am not.
Please don't take me the wrong way, myself and all the other "love-shy"guys are not seeking yours or anybody elses sympathy, as there people in the world who are far worse off than us. What we do ask is that people who do not suffer from SA or "love-shyness", is to appreciate and understand that some of us guys through no fault of our own struggle to establish normal romantic relationships with women (even though we have tried very hard and have failed). A book has actually been written about "love-shy" men, and there is a website/forum called "love-shy.com" dedicated to us guys who would love to have a girlfriend but cannot due to shocking bad luck/or misfortune.
In a handful of cases, you do see not so good looking guys with attractive women, but we are talking about a tiny percentage of men here.
Anyway, thank you for your encouragement, your post was a good read.
One of my problems i think may be that i dont posess instantly "male" qualities that are recognisable, i always see girls walking down the street with the tall, solid looking guys, and yes i know that isnt a representation of everybody ..
i'm skinny and have the punk look, longish hair, i can change a tyre, fix a car, drink beer or whatever you'd expect of male qualities and i have a deep, normal voice, but i dont know i keep over-analyzing why i cant get into a relationship ..
i listen to classical, electronic, metal, punk music, dont mind sad, happy, artsy films, dont drive a hotted up car ...
so i'm not a stereotypical alpha male, maybe that's why?
Joined: Apr 28, 2008 Posts: 41 Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject:
Argamemnon wrote:
Sebr3 wrote:
Firstly, I am sincerely sorry to hear about your situation and I hope that you will overcome your SA.
However, I must respectfully disagree that looks don't matter, they DO in most cases, I am sorry but I have observed women (in social situations) engaging with the more handsome men 99.99% of the time. whilst rejecting the average or ugly men. And it had nothing to with that rather overused word "confidence", it all came down to pure physical attraction and lust, nothing else.
That might be true to some extent. However, I think I'm average-looking (or maybe slightly above average), yet I'm usually so incredibly anxious in social situations that no girl would ever speak to me, let alone date.
My point is when you're extremely anxious you appear very unattractive, even if you're good looking. This is what happens to me all the time. I often notice that people get uncomfortable around me. Except on days I feel good.
Don't get me wrong, I still agree with you that looks are important too. To some girls more than to others of course, since it always depends on the individual.
You are probably right, but when I speak to women, I know I can hold a decent conversation, and I can make them laugh sometimes. But if the woman you are interested in is not immediately physically attracted to you, she will not ENGAGE, I am sorry but I have observed this behavior hundreds of times.
When I talk to women, I try to be interesting and positive, but (in their eyes), if you are "not their type", no clever pick up lines are going to work .
What we do ask is that people who do not suffer from SA or "love-shyness", is to appreciate and understand that some of us guys through no fault of our own struggle to establish normal romantic relationships with women (even though we have tried very hard and have failed). A book has actually been written about "love-shy" men, and there is a website/forum called "love-shy.com" dedicated to us guys who would love to have a girlfriend but cannot due to shocking bad luck/or misfortune.
I have actually never approached a girl, and it has never even crossed my mind to do so. What does this tell you about my confidence or self-esteem? Even though we both have never had a girlfriend, you are at least better off than me in terms of anxiety, self-esteem and probably general well-being. I'm almost 32 by the way.
Joined: May 06, 2008 Posts: 104 Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 8:40 am Post subject:
I'm 22 never been kissed though a few girls have shown an interest in me. But given I have had bad depression and anxiety mostly caused by SA its as if I'm not available anyway. I need to get some girls who are friends and = girlfriend. Does anyone have ideas where I could find a gf other than say Uni tutes, clubs or work etc?
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