If you can see that your anxiety is a state of mind largely perpetuated by defeat thoughts then you dismiss those thoughts replacing them with fresh positive thoughts.
I feel I have to do it every second to be succesful (I have so many thoughts and most of them very negative), it really drains my energy. It's extremely difficult..
If you can see that your anxiety is a state of mind largely perpetuated by defeat thoughts then you dismiss those thoughts replacing them with fresh positive thoughts.
I feel I have to do it every second to be succesful (I have so many thoughts and most of them very negative), it really drains my energy. It's extremely difficult..
What I do is set aside at least one hour a day for a number of different techniques and practice those faithfully.
This gives me enough momentum to stay on the wave so to speak.
Not necessary to spend all day every day thinking about it.
Good luck.
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Joined: Dec 07, 2006 Posts: 420 Location: 44/m/miami
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject:
creznor wrote:
The problem I have with ACT is that it's like the Intelligent Design of psychology. It takes clinically proven, scientific ideas (CBT) and ties them in with spiritual ideas (Budhism). If you ask me, I would say that the inventor of the approach just did this to sell and make money. He knew that most people used spirituality and religion to give them a sense of guidance and meaning to their lives, so he capitalized on this fact in order to sell these "new" ideas to a much larger audience.
Anxiety and depression are nothing more than bad habits of insecurity that you pick up. There are obvious genetic predispositions, but that doesn't mean you have to be a slave to your mind for the rest of your life. It means that the person has a lower threshold for susceptibility. That's all. If you have a habit of smoking, what are you going to do, tell yourself it's ok, become one with your habit, and then continue to fill your lungs with harmful cigarette smoke hoping that you quit? No, you're going to starve the habit until the feelings to smoke go away. That's how I view anxiety and depression, that's what seems logical, and that's what has worked for me and many of my friends.
Mindfulness has nothing to do with spirituality, and neither does ACT. Mindfulness is a way to focus on the task at hand, even though you get distracted by thoughts or feelings, you acknowledge these distractions and return your attention to what you are doing.
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Joined: Dec 07, 2006 Posts: 420 Location: 44/m/miami
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:06 pm Post subject:
jayo wrote:
CBT is based on questioning automatic negative thoughts that cloud our days with anxiety and fear.
If you can see that your anxiety is a state of mind largely perpetuated by defeat thoughts then you dismiss those thoughts replacing them with fresh positive thoughts.
This works but requires patience and persistence.
It makes complete sense - you will always get more back of what you focus on!
If the thoughts are automatic then why struggle with them? Most of the time we can't control our thoughts or feelings because they are products of our biology. But we can learn to make room for uncomfortable thoughts and feelings, if we are using our values to guide and motivate us. CBT didn't work for me, I can't spend all my time debating myself, I have better things to do.
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The problem I have with ACT is that it's like the Intelligent Design of psychology. It takes clinically proven, scientific ideas (CBT) and ties them in with spiritual ideas (Budhism). If you ask me, I would say that the inventor of the approach just did this to sell and make money. He knew that most people used spirituality and religion to give them a sense of guidance and meaning to their lives, so he capitalized on this fact in order to sell these "new" ideas to a much larger audience.
Anxiety and depression are nothing more than bad habits of insecurity that you pick up. There are obvious genetic predispositions, but that doesn't mean you have to be a slave to your mind for the rest of your life. It means that the person has a lower threshold for susceptibility. That's all. If you have a habit of smoking, what are you going to do, tell yourself it's ok, become one with your habit, and then continue to fill your lungs with harmful cigarette smoke hoping that you quit? No, you're going to starve the habit until the feelings to smoke go away. That's how I view anxiety and depression, that's what seems logical, and that's what has worked for me and many of my friends.
Mindfulness has nothing to do with spirituality, and neither does ACT. Mindfulness is a way to focus on the task at hand, even though you get distracted by thoughts or feelings, you acknowledge these distractions and return your attention to what you are doing.
But you have to realize that those "distracting thoughts" aren't natural and shouldn't exist to begin with. The problem is that us humans have this unnatural need to control life due to our advanced consciousness. Think about this: does an alphamale gorilla get depressed if his penis was a little smaller than some of the other male gorillas in the wild? Hell no. That beast has one natural directive, and it's to mate with as many female gorillas as he can. Does a lioness sit on a tree for weeks and sulk if a lion messes with the pride and kills her cubs? Heck no, she's spraying pheromones like a firehose the next day. Can a shark turn into the Jigsaw killer and plan out a bunch of psychological murder schemes with his prey? Nope, it only knows one thing: acquire & kill.
Depression and anxiety (including social anxiety), in my opinion, is nothing more than a habit that you generate from unnatural control thoughts spun by our little advanced brains, or insecurity-driven thoughts. We start developing strategies for control at early ages; some of us worried a lot (or tried to keep in control by trying to predict what was around the corner in order to prepare for it), some of us were shy and avoidant (or tried to keep in control by avoiding the chaos of being put on the spot and not knowing what to do or say), some of us were hostile (or tried to keep in control by pushing people away - by pushing away, they couldn't hurt you), some us were perfectionists (or tried to keep in control by avoiding messing up), etc. Over time, these control strategies became habituated and became a part of us. We were like jugglers juggling balls of worry, doubts, fears, ruminations, negatives, etc. And then one day, one of the balls fell. And then another fell. And another. Before we knew it, the symptoms crept up on us, and we became depressed or anxious. Up until that point though, we felt like we were in control of life.
In other words, insecurity and uncertainty generated fear, the fear was countered by an attempt to control life with an array of unnatural control strategies, and finally, the effort it took for you to control life eventually wore you down as the symptoms of depression oranxiety then crept in. Congratulations, your unhealthy, unnatural thought pattern has just generated depression.
The ultimate goal of an unhappy or anxious person is to build enough self-trust to live a reactive, spontaneous life (a life akin to an animal in the wild); a life that doesn't dwell on unreasonable thoughts of the past or worries of the future; a life that's completely in the moment. What anti-depressants do is shrink the habituated control/insecurity thoughts, the only problem is that all the other side-effects usually cause more stress, and thus more depression and loss of hope. It's a vicious cycle for some people who take meds.
That's what seems logical, especially when you read that our DNA is 99% similar to that of a chimpanzee. All the "mindfulness"and "ACT" crap makes absolutely zero sense at all. The only reason some people find that it works is the same reason people going to church believe that they're more humble and peaceful than everyone else: the ideas give you a false sense of meaning, guidance, and security. It doesn't work at the core or root of the problem.
Joined: Dec 07, 2006 Posts: 354 Location: space truckin'
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject:
creznor wrote:
But you have to realize that those "distracting thoughts" aren't natural and shouldn't exist to begin with. The problem is that us humans have this unnatural need to control life due to our advanced consciousness. Think about this: does an alphamale gorilla get depressed if his penis was a little smaller than some of the other male gorillas in the wild? Hell no. That beast has one natural directive, and it's to mate with as many female gorillas as he can. Does a lioness sit on a tree for weeks and sulk if a lion messes with the pride and kills her cubs? Heck no, she's spraying pheromones like a firehose the next day. Can a shark turn into the Jigsaw killer and plan out a bunch of psychological murder schemes with his prey? Nope, it only knows one thing: acquire & kill.
Depression and anxiety (including social anxiety), in my opinion, is nothing more than a habit that you generate from unnatural control thoughts spun by our little advanced brains, or insecurity-driven thoughts. We start developing strategies for control at early ages; some of us worried a lot (or tried to keep in control by trying to predict what was around the corner in order to prepare for it), some of us were shy and avoidant (or tried to keep in control by avoiding the chaos of being put on the spot and not knowing what to do or say), some of us were hostile (or tried to keep in control by pushing people away - by pushing away, they couldn't hurt you), some us were perfectionists (or tried to keep in control by avoiding messing up), etc. Over time, these control strategies became habituated and became a part of us. We were like jugglers juggling balls of worry, doubts, fears, ruminations, negatives, etc. And then one day, one of the balls fell. And then another fell. And another. Before we knew it, the symptoms crept up on us, and we became depressed or anxious. Up until that point though, we felt like we were in control of life.
In other words, insecurity and uncertainty generated fear, the fear was countered by an attempt to control life with an array of unnatural control strategies, and finally, the effort it took for you to control life eventually wore you down as the symptoms of depression or anxiety then crept in. Congratulations, your unhealthy, unnatural thought pattern has just generated depression.
The ultimate goal of an unhappy or anxious person is to build enough self-trust to live a reactive, spontaneous life (a life akin to an animal in the wild); a life that doesn't dwell on unreasonable thoughts of the past or worries of the future; a life that's completely in the moment. What anti-depressants do is shrink the habituated control/insecurity thoughts, the only problem is that all the other side-effects usually cause more stress, and thus more depression and loss of hope. It's a vicious cycle for some people who take meds.
That's what seems logical, especially when you read that our DNA is 99% similar to that of a chimpanzee. All the "mindfulness"and "ACT" crap makes absolutely zero sense at all. The only reason some people find that it works is the same reason people going to church believe that they're more humble and peaceful than everyone else: the ideas give you a sense of meaning, guidance, and security. It doesn't work at the core or root of the problem.
Gorilla penises? That's your therapy?
_________________ Accept your reactions and be present
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Joined: Dec 07, 2006 Posts: 354 Location: space truckin'
Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject:
kuhtreen wrote:
Okay, can we get back to the real question please? No one has even answered it yet!
Ok I'll try:
In CBT you learn that your thoughts are negative and then you try to make them neutral or positive. In group you'll sit around and do stuff that makes you feel anxious like: making eye contact, eating together, debating a random subject. The theory being: if you can live thru it you'll change your thoughts.
_________________ Accept your reactions and be present
Choose a valued direction
Take action
Okay, can we get back to the real question please? No one has even answered it yet!
Ok I'll try:
In CBT you learn that your thoughts are negative and then you try to make them neutral or positive. In group you'll sit around and do stuff that makes you feel anxious like: making eye contact, eating together, debating a random subject. The theory being: if you can live thru it you'll change your thoughts.
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