Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject: I dont trust doctors or meds
I have a lot of problems. I've been cooped up in my place since 1999. All I do is smoke pot all day. The only time I leave the house is to go get some more. I dropped out when I was 16 because I just couldn't take it any more. I was always quiet during school and a lot of people didn't understand why. For a long time I've had these problems that are like agoraphobia and depression, really bad anxiety... etc etc etc. I did get picked on a lot, but I also didn't get picked on sometimes too. I guess I feel like I am whining but deep down im just so tired of trying. The things I complain about seem endless. My friends werent the best sort of people so I stopped hanging around them a little bit after I had a bad reaction to laced marijuana at a party. That was the last party I went to... soon after that I dropped out. I didnt get my GED until I was 21. I don't work or anything... I just sit around all day sealed away from the world except for this little box. I tried to get a job one time but I chickened out when they asked for a second interview. I didnt understand why the first one wasnt good enough.
I dont know. It just keeps going. My life is full of all this garbage and yet I am so afraid of changing it because right now I am in a comfortable little bubble where no one can touch me for a long time. I dont really want to talk about it to anyone but I know I need help. I dont want to go to a doctor because a lot of doctors know absolutely nothing at all. I dont want to take medication because I dont want to get addicted to it, or take any of the more recent medication that has side effects of coma and/or death.
Joined: Dec 07, 2006 Posts: 420 Location: 44/m/miami
Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: I dont trust doctors or meds
incomplete_person wrote:
I don't like doctors. Am I out of luck?
I tried doctors, CBT and meds for a long time and just got worse. Finally I discovered Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) and reversed my downward spiral. You can buy an ACT self-help workbook at your local bookstore for less than $20.
You say you are comfortable in your bubble. But I bet you would trade a little comfort for a little work (or study or whatever you value). You can learn to use your values to guide and motivate you and discomfort won't stop you any more.
_________________ Accept your reactions and be present
Choose a valued direction
Take action
Joined: Dec 07, 2006 Posts: 420 Location: 44/m/miami
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:31 am Post subject: Re: I dont trust doctors or meds
Argamemnon wrote:
sabbath92002 wrote:
You can learn to use your values to guide and motivate you and discomfort won't stop you any more.
That sounds very interesting, could you elaborate please?
Let's say one of your values is being productive or having a job. But you get anxious just leaving the house. With ACT you would accept that you are going to get anxious and make room for it, not struggle with it. You would notice that your "thinking self" is sounding alarms of gloom and doom, that's what evolution has given us, so you just thank your mind for that input. But the key is you don't have to agree or disagree with your mind about the "doom and gloom" story. You can just notice that your mind is playing that story again. Instead you get in contact with your "observing self", which doesn't think or generate stories at all, it just senses the present moment. You then control your arms, legs and mouth to get out of the house and go through interviews. Focusing on the present moment and tasks to be done. For example: taking a shower, getting dressed, gathering directions to the interview, going outside, getting in the car, etc. Whenever you hear the "doom and gloom" story, acknowledge it, breath deep and keep moving in the directions of your values, out the door and in to a new job.
Emotions, thoughts, memories all come and go, rise and fall, are constantly changing and we only have limited control over this. But if we focus on increasing our willingness to feel whatever, notice whatever thoughts and memories come along and control our body, taking one step at at time, baby steps if needed, in the direction of our values. Eventually we learn to "tune" out "doom and gloom" stories from our mind.
Sometimes I have to treat my body as an "out of control robot" and instruct it to keep moving out the door. All the while noticing that the "doom and gloom" stories are playing in the background.
I'm sorry, I'm terrible at explaining ACT. But these doctors who write ACT self-help workbooks have had anxiety and depression and know what it feels like to battle our own minds and bodies. They explain it a whole lot better than I do.
_________________ Accept your reactions and be present
Choose a valued direction
Take action
Posted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: I dont trust doctors or meds
sabbath92002 wrote:
Let's say one of your values is being productive or having a job. But you get anxious just leaving the house. With ACT you would accept that you are going to get anxious and make room for it, not struggle with it. You would notice that your "thinking self" is sounding alarms of gloom and doom, that's what evolution has given us, so you just thank your mind for that input. But the key is you don't have to agree or disagree with your mind about the "doom and gloom" story. You can just notice that your mind is playing that story again. Instead you get in contact with your "observing self", which doesn't think or generate stories at all, it just senses the present moment. You then control your arms, legs and mouth to get out of the house and go through interviews. Focusing on the present moment and tasks to be done. For example: taking a shower, getting dressed, gathering directions to the interview, going outside, getting in the car, etc. Whenever you hear the "doom and gloom" story, acknowledge it, breath deep and keep moving in the directions of your values, out the door and in to a new job.
Emotions, thoughts, memories all come and go, rise and fall, are constantly changing and we only have limited control over this. But if we focus on increasing our willingness to feel whatever, notice whatever thoughts and memories come along and control our body, taking one step at at time, baby steps if needed, in the direction of our values. Eventually we learn to "tune" out "doom and gloom" stories from our mind.
Sometimes I have to treat my body as an "out of control robot" and instruct it to keep moving out the door. All the while noticing that the "doom and gloom" stories are playing in the background.
I'm sorry, I'm terrible at explaining ACT. But these doctors who write ACT self-help workbooks have had anxiety and depression and know what it feels like to battle our own minds and bodies. They explain it a whole lot better than I do.
Thanks a lot sabbath92002, you explained very well. This sounds very rational to me:
Quote:
But if we focus on increasing our willingness to feel whatever, notice whatever thoughts and memories come along and control our body, taking one step at at time, baby steps if needed, in the direction of our values. Eventually we learn to "tune" out "doom and gloom" stories from our mind.
Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: I dont trust doctors or meds
incomplete_person wrote:
I have a lot of problems. I've been cooped up in my place since 1999. All I do is smoke pot all day. The only time I leave the house is to go get some more. I dropped out when I was 16 because I just couldn't take it any more. I was always quiet during school and a lot of people didn't understand why. For a long time I've had these problems that are like agoraphobia and depression, really bad anxiety... etc etc etc. I did get picked on a lot, but I also didn't get picked on sometimes too. I guess I feel like I am whining but deep down im just so tired of trying. The things I complain about seem endless. My friends werent the best sort of people so I stopped hanging around them a little bit after I had a bad reaction to laced marijuana at a party. That was the last party I went to... soon after that I dropped out. I didnt get my GED until I was 21. I don't work or anything... I just sit around all day sealed away from the world except for this little box. I tried to get a job one time but I chickened out when they asked for a second interview. I didnt understand why the first one wasnt good enough.
I dont know. It just keeps going. My life is full of all this garbage and yet I am so afraid of changing it because right now I am in a comfortable little bubble where no one can touch me for a long time. I dont really want to talk about it to anyone but I know I need help. I dont want to go to a doctor because a lot of doctors know absolutely nothing at all. I dont want to take medication because I dont want to get addicted to it, or take any of the more recent medication that has side effects of coma and/or death.
I don't like doctors. Am I out of luck?
Interesting to read someone else but me feel that way about meds and docs. The staying home all the time and wondering would people really understand you or just laugh.
Only thing is i don't do drugs or drink much if any at all. That's when i'm sure i would feel completely bummy.
I don't think any tricks/meds/techniques work at curing this. What works is finding something you are great at doing, going out there and doing it then you might be able to have pleasure seeing people enjoy it and learning from you. It's almost always about feeling wanted isnt it? But i'm yet to find that thing.
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 12:13 am Post subject: Re: I dont trust doctors or meds
Misterhopefull wrote:
I don't think any tricks/meds/techniques work at curing this. What works is finding something you are great at doing, going out there and doing it then you might be able to have pleasure seeing people enjoy it and learning from you. It's almost always about feeling wanted isnt it? But i'm yet to find that thing.
The problem is: how do you find something you're great at doing if you can't go out and look for it? I don't really advocate medication for agoraphobia, but for some people it works well enough to allow them to make a start, to go out if only in a limited capacity and to meet other people. I certainly don't advocate drink or illegal drugs as a way to cope, because those can lead to dependency or other health problems. I don't judge people who turn to these things because I know how horrible agoraphobia is and how depressed it can make you feel, but I honestly believe that they don't help in the long run.
I like the sound of the ACT method described by sabbath. It makes a lot of sense to try to observe what's happening in our minds and bodies and try to make decisions for ourselves while acknowledging our feelings. Feelings are transient and it's amazing how looking at something from a different angle can help us to see what's really important and what isn't.
I can't emphasise enough that for anyone to move their life forward they need to actually DO something to help themselves. I hope that doesn't sound callous or bossy, I don't mean it to, but if you do nothing at all to change your situation they it won't change. Yes, doing something can be frightening if you're used to just staying inside your shell and doing nothing, but isn't it worth it if it might lead to a more fulfilling life? I'm by no means a very sociable person, I enjoy my own company, but now that agoraphobia no longer rules my life I can admit to myself that my very limited contact with other people for many years wasn't really of my choosing as I pretended to myself, it was forced upon me by my fear of other people's scrutiny and judgment. Once I got over the idea that I was under constant surveillance by others I was much better equipped to handle being out and about in the company of other people.
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