For those who want to stop feeling like this

wistful_dementia · Intermediate User Joined: Sep 28, 2004 Posts: 173

Guest 1: "I've done quite a bit of my own research this year, when I at last realised what was making me act they way I always have." Ok, you aren't alone there.

"I go by dictionary definitions, not my own."
You aren't alone there either.

" An official definition of a phobia is 'an irrational fear', which I don't think humans are born with (although pidgeons are scared of hawk silhouttes even when they don't know what one is)." Sure you can gather that from phobia : an exaggerated usually inexplicable and illogical fear of a particular object, class of objects, or situation.

Humans aren't born with 'irrational fear' but we are born with the genetics.... or a genetic predisposition or a range for feeling fear or not feeling fear, hence some are more susceptible to fear than others. When we feel fear we may not have a realistic view towards of our environment. Now couple your theories together with social-psychological theories... evolution has developed a social structure even for humans. Do you remember the experiments on apes and rats showing that some of them are naturally more timid and reclusive? Those animals also showed a deficit in serotonin and other neurotransmitters. When these transmitters were artificially increased, these animals became more assertive and less shy. This is why that in some humans medications actually help. But they aren't a permenant fix, because of the underlying irrational thoughts. Hence, modern therapy includes CBT , including for the more severe cases medication.

So if you have someone who is in a social environment who may have a chemical imbalance (lower serotonin levels, etc.) and may have an innate nervousness towards large groups and people whom he/she deems as 'higher on the social ladder' he or she will not see his or her environment in a realistic light. Of course this isn't the entire spectrum of irrational thoughts that SA's have... and they do vary from person to person, but I think both genetics and irrational thinking plays a major role in SA. You used an example of this irrational fear as the pigion. Agreed, in part. But as I have proposed to you there is more to it.

A definition of a disorder is 'a mental or bodily condition marked primarily by sufficient disorganization of personality, mind, and emotions to seriously impair the normal psychological functioning of the individual called also mental illness'. Yes, I agree that is a definition of a disorder. I like you, do not think of SA as an illness.

My opinions are based on my own experiences, my research, and a considerable amount of theorising." Yay, me too : )

It's a very important subject to me, so I think about it a lot, and I'm interested to see ideas contrary to my own. Meee tooo...

"If my personal views come across as stated fact; it's not intentional, but 'I think' before every line is boring to type and to read. Smile

" Me too! And no, I really mean it... I am not being condescending, although I try to leave poetic language for poetry and logic for rational thought. And I am also more concerned with the ideas I am putting forth rather than grammar and spelling, etc. Just me : )

Guest 2:"I think it's more likely to be an evolutionary feature in humans as it is in many other species, to be able to develop phobias, rather than abnormal genes" Agreed, genetics are the result of evolution. But, I think the guest2 may have a point in that a genetic abnormality is an abnormal variation or defect of a normal gene. Hence, we are genetically predisposed to a disorder or condition such as SA. Think of SA cyclically: first you have the genetic predisposition, then you have the nurturing factors of the family environment that you were raised in, then you have the social environment that surrounds you, and you have the irrational interpretation of potential dangers. As mature people we can learn how to not let the past affect how we feel presently. And we can also learn how not to let others affect how we presently feel (with reasonable limitations), but for some corretive thinking is quicker and easier than others. I wish I could say that for myself. I am making definite progress, but I still need to learn more social skills and have more casual conversations... any-who...

"I'm not ruling anything out though; I'm no genes expert, but I think no normal human is born unable to develop a phobia - it just doesn't make sense to me." I'm not ruling anything out either.... but I do think that we people , specifically SA's can be born with a sensitivity towards social fears, not the irrational thoughts themselves. But, if you have a sensitivity it is easier to develope these distortions, especially in abusive environments. That is why good nurturing and parenting can help to an extent (depending on the severityof the condition. For a more realistic picture of SA- I would recommend to the psychology buffs- to research from the social-psychological, evolutionary-psychology, neuropsychology, and cognitive-behavioural psychology perspectives.

I have no problems with other people sharing their theories. But, I am just wary of some people giving ammo to people who don't understand SA. Those people may jump to simple conclusion like 'hey it's all in your mind' (irrational thinking) just snap out of it! or 'your just scared of people, therefore you hate them', or 'socialisation is natural, everyone can and should do it', etc., etc.. some of these people maybe abusive because of their ignorance.

One last thing, I agree there is hope : ) For some rational thinking alone can help. And so does CBT and/or medication. But for some it is going to be easier for others. It may depend on things such as emotional intelligence and maturity also.

Some people's SA may be caused from cognitive distortions alone, but some may have to work harder at it. Actually, CBT (which works on corrective rational thinking, and exposure) evidence has shown that CBT and rationalising can actually change brain chemistry over time. We can discuss more later if you want. I have to go now, I'm very tired.

LilMissTragic · Expert User Joined: Sep 05, 2004 Posts: 803

If the fear of pain is worse than the phobia, then how come when i was 14 I got myself run over to get out of singing in the school choir???
Thankfully, I'm overcoming my Sp but when it was at its worse I woulda shot myself rather than talked to anyone.

Crimefish · Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2004 4:30 pm Post subject:

I think the anxiety is worse than the little disgust I may feel at myself for not being able to fit into what society expects of me. I'm an introvert. I'm happy on my own.

wistful_offline · Guest

as far as social groups... I'm an introvert also... I never felt the need to be a part of the gang or submit to someone who felt that they were an 'alpha' type. I'm just saying that a social heirarchy does exist. And we can still feel it.. the tention is still there for some of us, whether or not we want to be a part of it. And I also believe that because of our brains we can make an concious decision to evolve past that.

Guest · Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 8:05 pm Post subject:

wistful_dementia: Wow, someone who finds this as interesting as I do!

"We can discuss more later if you want. I have to go now, I'm very tired." Sure, I’d like that; I’m too busy to reply to all of your points now as well.

"I am not being condescending, although I try to leave poetic language for poetry and logic for rational thought. And I am also more concerned with the ideas I am putting forth rather than grammar and spelling, etc. Just me : )"
You’re not the first person to find my ‘poetic’ style of conversation odd, but I’m afraid that’s just part of me, and to express myself in metaphors comes more naturally because that’s how some ideas come to me initially, before I translate them into literal English. Actually, sometimes I alter my original posts completely because they would take a pointless amount of decoding on the part of everyone else, when I agree; getting points across clearly is the most important thing. Occasionally I leave the original thoughts in, complimentary to literal explanations, and I know I run the risk of that being interpreted as pomp, but I’ve done enough hiding behind conventional behaviour to know that misconceptions are inevitable and may as well be based on the real me instead of fiction.
I couldn’t understand what the heck I had been writing about if I didn’t use grammar, so ridiculously long are my sentences, so I check it out of consideration for all the poor people who try to find any sense in them. It’s boring and no self-gratifying task, trust me. I also think that deliberately sloppy or phonetic spelling is unfair on anyone who might not speak English as a first language, as I’ve been in the reverse position myself on other sites, prompting me to always make that effort.
Sorry for the two paragraphs of self-justification, but as a female I reserve the right to bore people with waffle. Laughing

Seriously, I want to clear up any doubts about my reasons for writing on here in one sitting, questioning of my integrity being a particular sensitivity of mine.

Speak to you later Smile

worrydoll: Shucks, glad I could help. Embarassed

Thanks, the essay’s nearly done, it’s looking OK to me. I just hope the markers are weird like us lot and find it interesting Laughing

racheH · Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 8:08 pm Post subject:

^Sorry, that last guest^ was me. Forgot to log in, idiot.^

_________________
'Be a first rate version of yourself, not a second rate version of someone else' ~ Liza Minnelli

wistful_offline · Guest

ouch, idiot? a little harsh on yourself Wink