Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:26 am Post subject: Feeling Unwelcome
Do you find that other people make you feel unwelcome? I'm assuming
this is a common AvPD experience.
If so, is it just us, or is it something other people subliminally do
because they don't really want to be around someone who has AvPD? It
seems to me that sometimes people choose their words so they make me
feel unwelcome. They don't say "Have some birthday cake with us";
they say "There's birthday cake at my desk." The first statement is a
direct invitation; the second is a declaratory sentence which may
imply an invitation or may just imply a feeling of social obligation
to tell me about the event. If I don't show up for cake based on the
second sentence, I'm sure the speaker would still feel polite and
would take credit for having invited me, but perhaps without thinking
about it the statement was made the second way because the speaker
didn't really care if I joined in the event.
I realize this is the monitoring of others characteristic of AvPD.
That doesn't disprove the premise, though. Maybe we are correctly
perceiving the insincerity of others.
Joined: Jan 16, 2006 Posts: 627 Location: Northern Europe
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:00 am Post subject:
Well, people sometimes feel uncomfortable when someone else rejects their offer so they might word an invitation in such a way that it doesn't sound like a direct invitation. It's more like a standing invitiation to come if and when you feel like it. That way, there's less of a chance that they have to deal with a direct "No, I don't want to eat your bloody cake!". This is especially true if they don't know you well, and aren't sure how you'll react.
Hmm, I found that a bit hard to describe in English, but hopefully you get my point!
_________________ :: fear is the mindkiller :: kein mitleid für die mehrheit
Thanks, but maybe my example is bad. Do not focus on the "cake" example, but instead are you able to reply to my opening question. Do people make you feel unwelcome? If so, maybe you have some other example that fits. If not, well good for you, and I may need to rethink my hypothesis. I see this as a shared problem. An avoidant is monitoring for implied rejection and I think some people take advantage of that by making it easier for the avoidant to avoid participating, instead of using words that would be more inclusive or inviting. To perpetuate my bad "cake" example, it's more like someone said "You don't want any cake, do you?" instead of "Would you like some cake?" Either way offers you the opportunity to affirmatively request cake, but the first question clearly discourages a request for cake, while the second way leaves you free to say "yes" or "no" without implying that the speaker wants a particular answer.
Do you find that other people make you feel unwelcome?
LibertadIlusoria - don't be so quick to blame yourself. While I agree we all need to look at our own behavior and try to someone that other people will be interested in, my hypothesis includes the premise that other people are often rude and insensitive and instead of reaching out to help a fellow human being, take advantage of their weaknesses to ignore or exclude them. Maybe you aren't so unlikable and boring - people just haven't given you a fair chance to show them your interesting side.
cLavain - my reply is similar to above. Even if the assumption of someone else is that you are not going to participate (that is, decline the cake), it is rude not to invite you to participate. I have also not heard about the cake when it was in existence, but then learned about it later. That hurts. Again, my suggestion is that people may say they didn't offer it to you because they assumed you weren't interested, but I think that is rude, and it hinders your ability to ever say "yes" and be included. Maybe they don't think about it directly, but I believe subconsciously people elect not to make that invitation because they don't want the avoidant to say "yes." That's why it's a shared problem It's not enough for a person to try to change their own way of thinking, they have the additional burden of trying to change the way the people around them think, too.
Joined: Jan 16, 2006 Posts: 627 Location: Northern Europe
Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:02 pm Post subject:
I can see your point, but the question is: How can you know the motivations of the other person? Your interpretation can certainly explain their actions, but it's not the only possible interpretation, something I hinted at in my first reply. I know from my own experience that I tend to instinctively jump to the conclusion that is most negative for me even though other more positive explanations are just as likely. That's not to say what you described never happens, I'm sure it does, but to what extent can we make this a general "truth"? Anyway, I would rather have no invitation than a forced/polite one.
_________________ :: fear is the mindkiller :: kein mitleid für die mehrheit
I would rather have no invitation than a forced/polite one.
I agree with your last comment and I'm not seeking an obligatory invitation. I'm just suggesting that the avoidance or withdrawal I sometimes engage in isn't properly attributable to just me and the way I am. I'm suggesting that other people induce that avoidance by using words that allow them to feel that they did make the polite invitation when they did so without sincerity, in a way that minimized the likelihood that I would accept. I realize that a lot of people wouldn't notice the difference and would accept the obligatory invitation as quickly as the sincere one. I don't think my hypersensitivity to the phrasing is a complete answer; I think other people are insensitive. It's the combination that makes me want to disappear.
I always feel unwelcome and like people don't like me...even if people seem nice to me I always think they're just faking it and that they're really thinking "I hate her!"...actually I know for a fact that alot of people don't like me.
Joined: Aug 24, 2006 Posts: 130 Location: nowhere USA
Posted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject:
LittleMissScareAll wrote:
I always feel unwelcome and like people don't like me...even if people seem nice to me I always think they're just faking it and that they're really thinking "I hate her!"...actually I know for a fact that alot of people don't like me.
I have those feelings too, but I think that conquering this affliction requires positive thinking. I know it's hard, but try to think positive. I would probably be really depressed because of my SA if I wasn't an optimistic. Replace your negative thoughts with positive ones.
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