Joined: Nov 22, 2004 Posts: 43 Location: United States of America
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:37 am Post subject: Better Ways to Get Over SA
A lot of people seem to believe that either CBT or desensitation are the best ways to get over SA (i read how people think if they just get used to being in social situations, there'll be less anxiety). My problem with these are that they really don't get at any of the causes of SA- they mostly just teach you to cope with your problem or deal more with symptoms.
An alternative might be to find the actual beliefs that you have that either completely ot partly cause your emotions, and then to eliminate that fear. There are different ways to do this, and currently I am in a type of therapy that uses this approach.
What you are describing is CBT. CBT (as far as I know) recommends identifying the things that you are scared of and testing the waters -- finding out in an experiential way what is a valid fear and what isn't. Exposure therapy puts you in a situation where you fear some reaction, and for quick learners, they will recognize that their fears were irrational and will discard them.[/i]
Joined: Nov 22, 2004 Posts: 43 Location: United States of America
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:38 am Post subject:
well, (as far as I know, too) CBT focuses on your thought process and physical symptoms. CBT aims to change your thought process and teach you relaxation techniques, although CBT does address some core issues. I
just think there are much better ways than CBT to get to the core issues (in my opinion they are beliefs formed in childhood, but whatever they are) and to fix the overall problem. Even hypnotherapy, I think, is better than SA (when hypnotherapy is used to address core issues).
yeah, CBT does all of that. It doesn't neglect understanding the reasons of why we got this way. + alot of people even when they do understand why they are this way act like they are powerless to do anything about it- like their past somehow mystically controlls their behaviour. CBT says ok, we understand our past and why we are acting this way- now do something about it! If something say, me being raped or beaten as a child led me to distort reality and I continued to reinforce those beliefs over and over as I get older- then it is not my past that is truly causing those problems, but rather me not taking responsibility for my current emotions and distorted thinking- the rape or abuse isn't happening over and over again in reality, but my mind is allowing it to have control over me, by me refusing to let the past affect my present and future.
yeah, CBT does all of that. It doesn't neglect understanding the reasons of why we got this way. + alot of people even when they do understand why they are this way act like they are powerless to do anything about it- like their past somehow mystically controlls their behaviour. CBT says ok, we understand our past and why we are acting this way- now do something about it! If something say, me being raped or beaten as a child led me to distort reality and I continued to reinforce those beliefs over and over as I get older- then it is not my past that is truly causing those problems, but rather me not taking responsibility for my current emotions and distorted thinking- the rape or abuse isn't happening over and over again in reality, but my mind is allowing it to have control over me, by me refusing to let the past affect my present and future.
I meant by me refusing to let go of the past and not allowing it to affect my present or future.
Besides, evironmental conditioning is only part of the factors that go into SA- there are also genetic predispositions- character traits
Joined: Nov 22, 2004 Posts: 43 Location: United States of America
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:22 pm Post subject:
Anonymous wrote:
Besides, evironmental conditioning is only part of the factors that go into SA- there are also genetic predispositions- character traits
I disagree. If you had a perdect childhood, where your parents always gave you unconditional love, never yelled at you, critized you, or harmed you in any way- do you still think you would have SA? The only contribution genetics make (I think) is that some people are more suceptible to being affected by bad parenting, or suceptible in different ways. You are not genetically afraid of social situations, and I don't see how anyone could prove that to be possible.
Quote:
CBT says ok, we understand our past and why we are acting this way- now do something about it!
CBT may acknowledge that the past is causing problems, but I don't think it deals with that fact effectively. You use the word "reinforce"- I don't think that matters. if you use certain methods and know the childhood causes of your problems, you can eliminated problems very quickly.
The only contribution genetics make (I think) is that some people are more suceptible to being affected by bad parenting, or suceptible in different ways. You are not genetically afraid of social situations, and I don't see how anyone could prove that to be possible.
Humans are animals. Scientific studies on rats and monkeys have shown that a deficit in serotonin leads these animals 'afraid' and subordinate in the social structure. When the serotonin was increased they became lesss timid.
There are multiple factors- parenting is one of them. If you receive good parenting then you may not develope SA but you are still likely to be shy, I think. + CBT has been shown to overtime increase serotonin production. of course you can say that this is a natural biproduct of corrective thinking, but at least science has shown their are genetic predispositions.
[
quote]CBT says ok, we understand our past and why we are acting this way- now do something about it![/quote]
CBT may acknowledge that the past is causing problems, but I don't think it deals with that fact effectively. You use the word "reinforce"- I don't think that matters. if you use certain methods and know the childhood causes of your problems, you can eliminated problems very quickly.[/quote] I don't think you get the point- simply knowing the cause alone doesn't solve anything. It helps to know how we got here, but the only thing that can change how we are is what we are doing presently.
Joined: Nov 22, 2004 Posts: 43 Location: United States of America
Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:54 pm Post subject:
First of all, we have some disagreements but I enjoy arguing them out even if I might be wrong.
Quote:
Humans are animals. Scientific studies on rats and monkeys have shown that a deficit in serotonin leads these animals 'afraid' and subordinate in the social structure. When the serotonin was increased they became lesss timid.
How can you be sure they were "afraid"- that is very subjective and cannot be determined just by mesuring chemical levels. Just because they were timid does not mean they were afraid, and being timid isn't a character defect- it is only according to society.
Quote:
I don't think you get the point- simply knowing the cause alone doesn't solve anything. It helps to know how we got here, but the only thing that can change how we are is what we are doing presently.
you're right, simply knowing doesn't change anything- but there are techniques for eliminating problems through understanding your past. Here's an example: www.decisionmaker.com. I'm currently using this method with the help of a proffesional and have seen great changes in two sessions.
How can you be sure they were "afraid"- that is very subjective and cannot be determined just by mesuring chemical levels. Just because they were timid does not mean they were afraid, and being timid isn't a character defect- it is only according to societ
y.
Usually when someone's heart rate and adrenaline increases then that is a fight or flight response- yes, what is 'fear' maybe subjective, but most people who avoid as a result of adrenaline or a biological response are in most societies considered fearful.
As far as timidity- I agree that it isn't a character defect, but most societies seem to look down upon it as a weakness, and in the animal world alot of animals including these rats take advantage of that and bully the weaker animals. I do think because of our developed brains that we can socially evolve past that.
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