u cant measure pain, so u never know how equal one persons pain is to another.
You are absolutely correct! You cannot compare one persons pain against another's. Threshold is a very personal thing. What one person might brush off as a mere inconvenience another person may find devastating.
Nicki wrote:
no i havent ever concidered suicide, but thats not to say i havent expereinced the same pain as someone who has concidered suicide.
This is a contradiction. You just posted how you cannot compare one person's pain against another's and how you cannot measure pain, so how then, do you know you have experienced an equivalent amount of pain as someone who has considered (and/or committed) suicide?
I think, if a person has never even contemplated the idea of suicide then they are not in the same field as someone who has. And they are not even in the same ballpark as someone- who has not only contemplated- but also tried to commit suicide. The person's personal threshold has not been tapped, therefore, wholly incomparable.
i said you will never know how equal two peoples pain are becuase u will never know how another person truly feels to compare, i didnt say that means two people cant be in equal pain. so in other words, according to what you said the hypothesis is 'people in the most of severist pain a person could possibly feel will commit suicide' i know ive been in enough pain, more than to be seen as normal thankyou very much, and i dont think you have any right to preach that people who commit suicide have felt the most pain amoungst people! thats bollox, so again. please dont track me down in attempt to some how make me look wrong or seomthing. anyways any expert will tell you suicide isnt usualy becuase that person is in sound mind but ful of pain, its usualy because the person is very cognitively un-balanced, usualy the pain is due to cognitive fautls and false ideas.
Nobody with SP is a coward like you say. I can't begin to understand the mindset of those who commit suicide...
Apparently you are not suffering like those who do commit suicide - I'm very happy for you. The only thing that keeps me from doing it is my belief in God. To describe my feelings I will quote Abraham Lincoln;
"If what I feel were equally distributed to the whole human family, there would not be one cheerful face on the earth."
Last edited by Argamemnon on Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Feb 28, 2008 Posts: 29 Location: England, Devon
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject:
Hmmm i don't think a coward could take their life, it takes a whole load of courage to do it. I've contemplated it before and when in that state of mind it's like tunnel vision, nothing else matters other than whatever your depressed about, it's an act of relief and purely out of desperation not cowardliness.
_________________ As I sit feelin the pain in my wrist I vow to myself that I'ma change this shit Or at least I gotta try, or part of me will die And only by action will any ideas solidify So I inhale, exhale as I ponder, This grown man will make mistakes no longer - guru
lets take the philosophical root. everyday you wake, everyday you sleep, everything you see and everything you touch, is what you have done alone, no body else has touched what you have touched, had the same sensation and then had the same feeling. the world we all live in, is made up of millions and millions of worlds that millions and millions of people live in. more simple, the world you live in, is not the world i live in, my reality and not yours, thus there is no one true reality.
Knowing this is knowing the pain that you may feel, may give you the sensation of grief may give you the thought to end it all. someone elses pain may give them the sensation of alarm and give them the thought to re-think everything they have ever known.
just because someone who is in pain does not even contemplate suicide, does not mean their pain is not felt and fierce or maybe fiercer than someone who is currently contemplating suicide. the bottom line is someone who has comited suicide does not mean they reached a point in pain where stronger pain wasnt possible, it purely means their mind set led them to that resort, im not saying that they were not in emense pain, im saying there pain is merely respectable. the act of suicide however is illogical.
in bhuddism we except that we as a person, lies behind our conscience thought and feelings, which are merely guids and reactions to our actions and that of around us, if we learn to not be blown by every wind and merely observe it, we are enlightened.
Nicki. I am just responding to a post. I am debating your thoughts. Along with excerpts from previous posts to back said debate. Also, I am not questioning the amount of pain you have personally felt. This is for you alone to know, evaluate, and deal with.
I'm arguing the point that you cannot possibly know you have been in as much pain as someone who has committed, or perhaps contemplated, the idea of suicide (and you have posted the same). Why? Because, as you've mentioned before, you cannot compare yours to another's, you cannot measure it and you cannot know if it is equal.
I agree with you that those who commit suicide are not thinking clearly and most likely have numerous cognitive- as well as emotional, developmental, social... the list goes on- issues to deal with. Certainly, someone who is thinking clearly would not want to harm themselves- or anyone else for that matter! But sadly, people do. Both. Every single day.
I don't understand your lack of compassion and understanding on this subject. Especially for someone who is studying psychology and says they have experienced SA. Surely you realize that people are psychologically different. In fact, you've said as much! A person who commits suicide or has persistent thoughts of suicide is quite obviously NOT in the right frame of mind! Why would you condemn them for this? Why would you turn a cold shoulder to someone who is so obviously in need of a warm embrace?
You know, you can't take suicide back! It's permanent! You can't say "Oops! My bad! I didn't really mean that!" This says something, doesn't it?!! It shows you that people are Serious! They are Done dealing w/life! How absolutely, incredibly, interminably SAD that is! My heart breaks for these people!
As far as the "hypothesis" is concerned though, I would have to think about it a little more. But, it isn't what you posted. There is more to it than simply saying someone in severe pain will end their own life. Heck, take a pow for example. Some pow's have suffered through years of pain and fought daily to stay alive only to finally return home safely and, tragically, end their own life...
im not giving the cold shoulder or nor do i have lack of understanding and compassion. fact is were having a discusion online,no ones sitting here with pills in there hand saying 'im gonna fucking do it!' if it was someone sitting with me saying they wanted to die, i would put my arm around them, and then call them fucking stupid!and remind them of everything they have to live for! coz taking your own life is stupid by anyones standards. its not a good thing is it?
all im saying is people cope with things better than others, so this means that two people can both feel totoally shit about themselfs, but some people can cope and move through it better, were all made up of the same things, skin blod and bone, so why is it that person can deal with pain better? its all cognitive. something that makes u mad one day will make u laugh another etc.
I understand what you are saying, Nicki. While I, personally, wouldn't go with the "fucking stupid" approach- I understand what you'd be trying to say to the person.
The only thing I want to mention is to think about the website we are on. While we (you, me and some others who've posted) may only be having a conversation, many others come to this site in a desperate state of depression and frustration. They are looking to find some semblance of comfort in the posts others have written. So, while we are just conversing (and debating, haha), some people reading these posts may be seriously considering suicide as a viable alternative to what they have experienced to be a very painful existence. A degree of caution is a good idea when stating our opinions on this delicate subject.
Nikki wrote:
were all made up of the same things, skin blod and bone, so why is it that person can deal with pain better?
That's one of the "Big" questions..... isn't it? :/
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