This might upset some people.

Scoutabout · Newbie User Joined: Apr 18, 2008 Posts: 12

As someone who has spent years suffering from depression, anxiety and phobias, I am tired of the "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" crowd. Many of us have spent years trying to understand and battle these "demons" within ourselves, and it is hard enough without having someone wag a finger at us, especially those who have been fortunate enough not to have suffered from any of these illnesses. What really bothers me is that these same people wouldn't dream of wagging a finger at someone with diabetes (for example), telling them to "just get over it". These illnesses are just as real as diabetes and other conditions. I have done everything I can think of to bring an end to my illnesses, but now that I'm in my fifties, I have finally realized that probably the most I will be able to do is control them through the combination of medications and therapy. I have been on and off medications through the years, and I can tell you from personal experience that whenever I try to go without medications, I only get worse every time. In my case, I believe I have unfortunately inherited the biochemical makeup that makes me as I am. There are so many in my family with depression, bipolar disorder and other mental problems that I think I was doomed from the start. However, I've always had this fight in me, and will not give up. I will continue to take my meds and see a therapist to keep myself on an even keel. That's another thing - some people are so ignorant they think these medications make people "high". Forgive me, but that is just plain stupid to suggest such an idea. I do not enjoy taking these meds, and they certainly don't get me "high". The most they do is bring me up to "normal" - otherwise, I would fall into that pit again, and that always risks suicidal thoughts which could always turn into the real thing. That scares me. I'm also angry at the people suggesting the problem is "self-centeredness". No, the problem is that these are illnesses. I have these illnesses, but can continue to do many things that are very unselfish. These are not diseases of "selfishness". When was the last time some of you donated money or time to a worthy cause? I do it all the time. I always find ways to think of others and help others. If anything, the positive side of what I have been dealing with is that it has made me more sympathetic towards others. Because I have felt pain, I feel the pain of others. Let's quit treating people with SA and other illnesses and conditions as though they have a simple problem with a simple solution - that belittles people.

Chiaroscuro · Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:44 pm Post subject:

Scoutabout.

I agree with what you are saying - and I realize you were referring generally to people who make quick assumptions about how to 'cure' social anxiety. You're peaved with people who do that right? - and also people who equate social anxiety with self-centredness.

I'm with you on both those points.

But I just want to make sure you realize, cause I'm not sure if you do or not, that I wasn't actually disagreeing with you. I think one of my paragraphs may have been worded with two possibble contradictory interpretations. I meant that I agreed with you that social anxiety was not self-centredness.

I was then trying to make my own seperate point, nothing to do with your posts at all, just my own point - that we have to battle the condition as best we can - which you just went on to say that you do in your last post - and that we have a choice at least in whether or not to try to overcome it as best we can - even if that turns out to seem a small accumplishment comparatively.

You have a lot more experience with this than me, but I'm sure you'll agree with me - that when we give in, things can spiral to the point whereby, at worst, a person can't use the phone or talk to anyone - barely even family. Iv'e experienced that a fair bit at 22. At that stage depression can sink in and we can feel quite nihilistic or even suicidal right?

I just think that anyone with social anxiety who faces these negative feelings and has the courage to make themselves try - for example to communicate with family/friends etc, or as you say, e.g. contribute to charity and overcome the symptoms as best they can - should be commended. It seems to me that many people on this site are doing this which is great. But some arn't, and if they're not, that's a little bit selfish - in my opinion. Though I admit you need a bit of clarity in your mind about your situation and what you want to do - I mean I appreciate it can seem to just happen to you at times.

I do believe that the vast majority of us can at least manage the condition, so that we are reasonably independent and have enough energy/thought space to care about others- if we try to be positive.

And CORIANDER -

I hear what you are saying. What Iv'e said is not original either I know. But sometimes we can lose sight of some simple things. And we can feel sorry for ourselves. It helps me sometimes just to remind myself so I don't get too complacent or pessimistic. cause when that happens to me, it's contageous and doesn't help anyone. That's for sure.

Soz for the length. I just don't want to be misunderstood. That's all.

krs2snow · Intermediate User Joined: Jan 25, 2008 Posts: 206

I can understand where Justinzerofive and Scoutabout are coming from. However, my personal theory has always been if I could just "let go" of my control over situations, I would be much happier. I do oscillate between thinking I should/need to be taking meds. to help me with this (as in- it is beyond my control), to thinking it is just a matter of Not Caring what others think and, in turn, I need to change the way I am thinking. The later is the one I most often abide by.

I think Justinzerofive is stating his opinions on the subject and if this is the conclusion he has come to and it has worked for him, more power to him!

I do think we all too often blame our behaviors as being "beyond our control" and I think at some point, we have to take responsibility for ourselves. For example, someone sued McDonald's because they spilled coffee they had ordered in their own lap and burned themselves! How ridiculous is that!?

If behaving a certain way in a situation is socially unacceptable, then you shouldn't behave that way! Is it socially acceptable not to go to your works' Christmas Celebration- when everyone else from the company went? No. It isn't. I know this.

I just think we have more control over ourselves then we like to admit.

Many people are sooo tired of hearing "Buck up, camper! Pull yourself up by your boot straps!"

I'm tired of hearing the excuses. I have a "disease", an "addiction" or an "illness"!

Oh, gee! I ran into and killed a family of five? Heck, don't blame me! I'm an alcoholic, I have a disease! Oh, boy! I stole money from my family? Well, don't blame me! I'm a cokehead, I have an addiction! Oh, golly! I act like a complete idiot in social situations? Hey, don't blame me, I have a illness!

At some point we have to take responsibility for ourselves and our actions! If everyone at work thinks that I am a total and complete outcast and social freak- guess what? It's because I have created that perception!

This is where I end up. Not, I need drugs. Or, I have an illness. Or, there is something "wrong" with me. I think I need to take more responsibility for myself. I agree with Justinzerofive. If things do not change for myself, I have no one to blame but myself.

bleach · Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:04 am Post subject:

krs2snow · Intermediate User Joined: Jan 25, 2008 Posts: 206

krs2snow · Intermediate User Joined: Jan 25, 2008 Posts: 206

bleach · Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 1:41 am Post subject:

krs2snow · Intermediate User Joined: Jan 25, 2008 Posts: 206

Chiaroscuro · Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:14 am Post subject:

Bleach - Yes and no to your question.

No it's not selfish to avoid doing something that you know is too difficult for you at a certain time.

Yes it is selfish to avoid trying to get better socially or to try and work on worrying less about ourselves. Because whether we like it or not, being unhappy and seriously inhibited socially has a negative affect or just simply no positive affect on others lives. And we do spend a lot of time internalising about our issues. Knowingly doing that, and believing that it's 'just the way you are', is a false belief.

And you know, it's not really about blame. You don't have to feel angry at yourself. You just need to be realistic about what you need to do, what your not doing that you should be, and admit to yourself that you can do more than you're doing, even if it won't be easy. In that respect Kr2snow is right. I think the label/diagnoses can become an excuse. Nobody is supposed to identify themselves with a phobia as if it is a part of their personality in my opinion. That is a mistake. It really should just be a way of categorising symptoms to make it clear to you and others what the problem is, so that you can try to overcome it. Fair enough, some people can only do so to a degree. But I don't believe there is a SA person who is not capable, with a lot of effort, of leading a relatively normal life. If you're avoiding things like going to the shop to buy milk, or phoning someone etc, because you have decided you can't do it PERIOD, then you are not trying hard enough, and you are hiding behind your phobia.

It's not a case of 'just get your act together' or 'snap out of it' etc etc. Nobody on this thread, at least, is saying that. It's a case of 'be honest about how hard you are trying and whether you are willing to experience a little pain, in order to gain some social confidence.

But that's it for me now. I think maybe this thread is just gonna get circular.

Scoutabout · Newbie User Joined: Apr 18, 2008 Posts: 12

For years I did not know I had the illnesses of depression coupled with anxiety disorders and phobias. I myself went through all the other possible causes for my feelings and behaviors - including that I might just be plain self-centered. I'm am saddened that some of you in these posts still blame the victim for the illness(es). The fact that these illnesses were not recognized and dealt with while I was still young caused a lot of heartache and waste. The fact that I was a child whose problem was totally ignored was not my fault, being that I WAS a child. However, once I became an adult, I did take matters into my own hands, and I resent those people who somehow think it is self-centered or shifting the blame to someone or something else because I am trying to understand and manage my illnesses. There are still people in these posts who are living in the dark ages, who obviously have not studied psychology or biology and the mind-body connection. They still do not think of depression, anxiety and phobias as REAL illnesses - which, by the way, THEY ARE. When you have chest pains, is it "selfish" and "irresponsible" to think that you might have a serious problem, one that should be checked out by a doctor? Well, depression and other mental illnesses cause painful symptoms and disrupt life in a way that also should be checked out by a doctor. I have done that. I wish I had seen a doctor sooner, because my life is way better now that I am being treated. Also, I want to make the point that a "one size fits all" approach will not work in treating these illnesses. It depends on the severity, longevity and so forth of these illnesses. Some people require more and different treatments. Some may even rid themselves of these illnesses. Others will battle it all their lives. In my case, getting treatment has enabled me to truly contribute more than ever in life. I could be wrong, but I don't think I will ever be 100% free of my illnesses. But life is pretty good and not only is my life a lot better, I know that I have helped others. Some of you who are not so helpful and understanding need to get more educated. You might also benefit from a visit to the NAMI website.