I used to be religious, until I realized that all life is essentially just a series of carefully controlled chemical reactions. And thoughts, ideas and beliefs are just patterns of electricity in the brain. If you take a jar and fill it up with methane, ozone, some carbons, nitrogen, water, and some other stuff that I can't remember, then run some electricity through it, you'll create life without omnipotence and omnipresence and all that noise.
But that's just my view...
_________________ I did not call myself Pyrophosphate because of the importance of whatever biological process it is a part of.
I called myself Pyrophosphate because of the importance of the bag of marshmallows from which I read it.
Joined: May 16, 2008 Posts: 76 Location: in the uk south west
Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject:
Doomed2Die wrote:
~scruffpot
But that's the whole point of it, the bible, God ect. Choice. In fact the bible enforces this even.
You see, the bible says how the world being ruled by Satan is completely I dedicated to preventing people from learning the truth i.e understanding the bible and discovering Jehovah. Now, of course this sounds far fetched to anyone unlearned in such. But what about the hundreds of Christian religions competely ignoring the bible? And yet praising it as some kind of idol. Is that not the best kind of coverup possible? To turn people away from the bible?
You claim you have read it and yet mention torment in hell and purgatory, both rightly tools to control people and not actually in the bible. Similarly destiny is not possible, correct, but what is an intelligent prediction? What is a super intelligent prediction? As a creator he knows everything inside and out, and can forsee what will happen. We share this ability ourselves, albeit on a much lesser scale.
Blindness caused by religion, I agree, blindness caused by the truth? Anything but.
The bible is not truth and never has been.
The bible is just a story book that has been passed down and changed by writers, by word of mouth, by dfferent concepts of religion for their own benefits over the many many years of human existance to today and it still will change.
I can not except that Gods word existed or even a God does.
Somebody wrote the bible and sold the concept to willing people who needed to find a existance in their life. The author was fed up of society and the way in which it was going and created a structure for humanity to become and act around, but he/she did it with the ideas of a religion. there is always a rebel in all society trying to create a different utopia
I can't except the idea of a creator, as I do not believe in one. I do not even except the concept of Satan.
Religion does not give choice because you have a belief and to that you are classified within a group a sect, and from inside you work upon those rules that have been set by the religion. Where the real rules are from law, humanity, life and social conditions.
For me your so dam lucky to be alive and that your parents didnt decide to use protection. Thats life.
_________________ Forget all religions and silly silly Scientology join my cult of randomness instead
http://www.cultofrandom.com
Lucky for what exactly? What matters when you cannot enjoy life? What are the essentials, the bare reality of existance? The typical stuff that everyone eventually thinks about in life sooner or later.
I was not looking for something to believe in, to feel comfortable with. In fact I was simply "looking" and wondering at things, anything really, usually the big o-so important things. By sheer "chance" I got a study with Jehovah's Witnesses.
Factually everything made and continues to make sense, logcially things connect perfectly the spirtual side interweaved with virtually everything.
Now I have no choice but to tell others of the truth, for that is what it is. Both because I want to, and it's my duty to. Think of it as finding a cure for a epidemic.
You can strip away everything, leave only the basics, and still man proceeds towards religion, to a figurehead other than a father. It is who we are. It is obvious we cannot lead ourselves, again it is not intended in our design, globally history repeats itself over and over again.
I make it my life to scrutinise what I know and what I learn, to see if it really is the truth. I have yet to prove myself otherwise. "What if" scenarios are as real as considering if the moon really is made out of cheese, but still I continue to study. To essentially seek the truth. It is after all... what Jehovah would want me to do. As would any father teaching their child would want them to understand, rather than the knowledge to be drummed into them without a choice in the matter.
Are you sure of your own belief scruff? If so, do you keep making sure it's right?
_________________ Intellectual honesty is characterized by a readiness to scrutinize what one believes to be true, and to pay sufficient attention to other evidence available
I used to be religious, until I realized that all life is essentially just a series of carefully controlled chemical reactions. And thoughts, ideas and beliefs are just patterns of electricity in the brain. If you take a jar and fill it up with methane, ozone, some carbons, nitrogen, water, and some other stuff that I can't remember, then run some electricity through it, you'll create life without omnipotence and omnipresence and all that noise.
But that's just my view...
So who is "carefully controlling" the chemical reactions? And where did the chemicals come from - did they create themselves? Or are chemicals and water eternal, with no beginning and no end?
As a creator he knows everything inside and out, and can forsee what will happen. We share this ability ourselves, albeit on a much lesser scale.
Blindness caused by religion, I agree, blindness caused by the truth? Anything but.
One of religions biggest contradictions?
We are also supposed to have free will but if god knows how our lives and the future will pan out then he obviously knows what choices each and every one of us will make. If GoD knows what choices we will make before we make them then it means we have to make that choice. This means we never actually had the choice and free will is out the window.
Freedom of choice precludes predestination. Our freedom of choice, as a quality of Jehovah himself is very powerful, obviously. Which in turn is upheld by himself and respected.
He has an eternal purpose rather than a fixed plan and can intervene complicated circumstances instantly, unlike humanity who require guidance and planning to utilise thought into action. The subject is quite a doozy.
_________________ Intellectual honesty is characterized by a readiness to scrutinize what one believes to be true, and to pay sufficient attention to other evidence available
I used to be religious, until I realized that all life is essentially just a series of carefully controlled chemical reactions. And thoughts, ideas and beliefs are just patterns of electricity in the brain. If you take a jar and fill it up with methane, ozone, some carbons, nitrogen, water, and some other stuff that I can't remember, then run some electricity through it, you'll create life without omnipotence and omnipresence and all that noise.
But that's just my view...
So who is "carefully controlling" the chemical reactions? And where did the chemicals come from - did they create themselves? Or are chemicals and water eternal, with no beginning and no end?
WE control the reactions. Don't you think there might be a reason you eat everyday? I am in no way prepared to explain where everything came from, because that would take many pages and an understanding of quantum physics. Instead, I'll just say that chemicals are created from lighter chemicals in nuclear reactions that take place in stars.
_________________ I did not call myself Pyrophosphate because of the importance of whatever biological process it is a part of.
I called myself Pyrophosphate because of the importance of the bag of marshmallows from which I read it.
Joined: May 16, 2008 Posts: 76 Location: in the uk south west
Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject:
Doomed2Die wrote:
~scruffpot
Lucky for what exactly? What matters when you cannot enjoy life? What are the essentials, the bare reality of existance? The typical stuff that everyone eventually thinks about in life sooner or later.
I was not looking for something to believe in, to feel comfortable with. In fact I was simply "looking" and wondering at things, anything really, usually the big o-so important things. By sheer "chance" I got a study with Jehovah's Witnesses.
Factually everything made and continues to make sense, logcially things connect perfectly the spirtual side interweaved with virtually everything.
Now I have no choice but to tell others of the truth, for that is what it is. Both because I want to, and it's my duty to. Think of it as finding a cure for a epidemic.
You can strip away everything, leave only the basics, and still man proceeds towards religion, to a figurehead other than a father. It is who we are. It is obvious we cannot lead ourselves, again it is not intended in our design, globally history repeats itself over and over again.
I make it my life to scrutinise what I know and what I learn, to see if it really is the truth. I have yet to prove myself otherwise. "What if" scenarios are as real as considering if the moon really is made out of cheese, but still I continue to study. To essentially seek the truth. It is after all... what Jehovah would want me to do. As would any father teaching their child would want them to understand, rather than the knowledge to be drummed into them without a choice in the matter.
Are you sure of your own belief scruff? If so, do you keep making sure it's right?
So what epiedemic is religion a cure for? without religion would this epedemic actually exist?
How do you know that man stills proceeds to religion a figurehead figure if you strip away the basics? On what basis have you conducted this bit of research? Where are the figures? According to freud i thought it was a womanly figure man heads towards!
What happens if you take the figurehead out of the equastion and just explore other alternatives such as science, humankinds desire to question?
Like i said i do not have a belief I refuse to believe in religion even in atheism. It wrong to group people on basics of beliefs. Randomism (nhialism/chaos theory) is not a belief as beliefs need sturcture to exist and you cannot sturcture random. I'ld rather question explore and leave my mind open to all senarios then to accept
Do you have to make sure your belief is right by trying to teach it to other people by trying to pass on "the truth" to convince other people,you "teaching the truth" is just another way of you trying to reconfirm your belief to yourself and everyone else
I work with a Jehovah whitness, he complains about the govenment and society but being he is under the teaching of jehovah and (according to him) he is not allowed to vote, how can he complain or even comment on society or the way the country is run. Therefore he stays within the comunity and has no choice but to accept.
We can lead ourselves. Who says we cannot if we do not believe in the way that you do? Where is your data to say other wise? I can say we can lead ourselves by the amount of non believers that exist.
Who says we cannot enjoy life? Its a lucky fluke we are here at all, that the earth isn't over by a couple of degrees to the sun or life wouldn't have existed. Being I see that it is all random and we are privalidged to even step out onto this planet, enjoy life while you can instead of wondering why how what where and when.
What happens if the truth is wrong?
If you are studying to seek the truth do you always find yourself seeking? Maybe your not ment to find the truth and never will do? maybe no one is.
Im actually enjoying this conversation Doomed2Die
_________________ Forget all religions and silly silly Scientology join my cult of randomness instead
http://www.cultofrandom.com
Joined: May 29, 2008 Posts: 85 Location: Illinois, USA
Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject:
For the record, I don't believe in god and hate religions. I won't go into it, just go to youtube and search "george carlin religion". He says it better than I ever could.
Psychedelicious wrote:
No. If god was so great he wouldn't of made me look like this, or have extreme social phobia. As of what I see in my opinion, church basically just tells us what horrible people we are and what is wrong with us. No help. No help at all.
My thoughts exactly...except that "making you look like this" crazy talk. I saw the photos you put up of yourself. You have absolutely nothing to worry about, trust me.
Joined: May 16, 2008 Posts: 76 Location: in the uk south west
Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:41 pm Post subject:
I do not hate religion I just do not agree with them & the concept of a religion or a god or worshipping something.Or that there is a creator a higher power etc etc
Have lost good friends to religious sects, scientology, extreme christianity etc
We are free to choose to believe in what we like but allow us to question your faith, as you do to us.
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