Yeah, that is platos parable of the cave. And? So what if everyone everywhere is using it as a justification of their beliefs? It doesn't make the parable any less meaningful. As far as everyone else's belief systems, I respect them. There are a lot of interesting philosophies within Buddhism and Hinduism. Although personally, I am skeptical of the supernatural aspects of them. That's my right and my opinion.
Not all philosophy is pedantry focusing on complicated fantastical issues that alot of people are disintrested in.. I meant to use this parable as it was intended to be use... some philosophy can be practical in daily life and it helps to develope a realistic outlook on life. (as far as my interpretation)... this parable is meant to show that we can actually grow as humans and have a more meaningful life by facing our fears, prejudices, and ignorance. Alot of people don't have the courage to think independently and challenge beliefs that they have learned to unconditionally accept from society and their upbringing. Some of those beliefs are correct and alot aren't, but by thinking intelligently and reasonably and also examining our belief and the world we can better ourlives and the world as a whole. It ultimately is a liberating experience. Really, I believe that.. just think if Norm learned how to think reasonably and ethically. Just because this may sound 'highfalutin' doesn't mean that it isn't meaningful or useful.
And by the way, are you being mean? Gawd, go easier on me will you? or am I just being self-conscious?
I am afraid to post at this site because I am afraid that some idiot will misconstrue the entire idea of what I am saying based off of a typo or because they are simple minded
in my view, (used to have major social anxiety, now only mild) this type of attitude is a big factor to why i was having so many problems.
Truth is, when other people have a different view to you, it generally isnt because they are simple minded. The thing is, just because you think your brilliant and no one understands you, dosnt mean you are, your probly not any more insightful than the next person, you just think you are.
I learned that, and i learned not to think too much, just take it easy and go with the flow, and that was one definite milestone to getting better.
Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2004 8:27 pm Post subject: If you are refering to me- wistful---8O
Quote:
Truth is, when other people have a different view to you, it generally isnt because they are simple minded. The thing is, just because you think your brilliant and no one understands you, dosnt mean you are, your probly not any more insightful than the next person, you just think you are.
I learned that, and i learned not to think too much, just take it easy and go with the flow, and that was one definite milestone to getting better.
I agree.... just because other people have a different view than myself, it generally isn't because they are simple minded. They are only simple minded if they don't try to use their minds and they thoughtlessly hurt other people or try to avoid addressing issues that maybe require difficult thinking. I just disagree with the way they go about reasoning... So maybe in one respect you are correct.. they themselves aren't simpleminded but thier behaviour and agression and reasoning is. Wow, see how thinking can straighten out certain injustices... I don't think that I necessarily am anymore or less insightful than anyone else. Maybe, maybe not... that's irrelevant to my discussions.
Tommy, you took the easy way out- how brilliant! Yeah, if I didn't want to learn and grow as a human, I would go with the flow also, but in the long run going with the flow hurts us all, including myself. Maybe, you just took the lazy way out because you are insecure about having to take the responsibility of possibly being wrong, and you are afraid to challenge any preconceived notions- then you would especially feel stupid if you find they are wrong- therefore you don't even try. We are all human and capable of making mistakes- the possibility of being wrong is a fact of life, that doesn't mean we all should give up trying to think intelligently or wisely. Before you jump to conclusion try to be open minded about the prior postings and make an effort in responding intelligently to the topics presented. If we don't act wisely, then we can become unjust and ignorant people such as Norm. And so what if he is trying to do the 'tough love' thing... that's no excuse and there is no reason to apologize for him. There is a thing that is called common sense... if you truly 'love' someone as you believe norm does then you will be even handed and open-minded... not abusive. I don't think that I am any better than anyone else and I don't think you have any right to try to mind read and somehow jump to that conclusion. I think that the only reason you believe that is because you feel insecure by me proposing 'big questions'. I believe that wisdom is a liberator, promotes justice, and respect and even love. Instead of giving up why don't you try to exercise your mind and accept the possibility that you might be wrong and move on from there. I admit when I am and I am also secure enough to admit my mistakes, learn from them, and change my philosophies accordingly. Therefore philosophical and intellectual debates don't intimidate. Hell, I definitely admit that there are that I am not as intelligent in as other people are. So what? That is the point from one of my first postings. Read them again if you wish.
I DO NOT THINK I AM ANY BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE. I AM OPEN TO ALL CONSTRUCTIVE CRITISICM THAT ISN'T MEANT TO DEGRADE PEOPLE. I RESPECT ALL OPINIONS. So respect my right to disagree or agree with them and discuss them.
Last edited by wistful_dementia on Tue Nov 16, 2004 8:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
We are all intitled to our beliefs and opinions... I never attack the sender of the message personally. If he make a bad argument then I address the argument. The back and forth exchange of dialogue is a learning experience for both of us I hope. The only time I usually make a personal remark or attack (which is rare if you look at all my postings) is out of defensiveness. When someone is making a personal attack and it is apparent that they are doing so as a way of degrading someone.... Maybe, I should rise above that but mean spirited ignorance gets old.
i dont know what the language rules are here, but i used to what i call "mind fuck" alot. Most of you here will be experts at it
anyways, one day, and im serious i mean not a process but just one day, i said to myself
"what am i afraid of, what am i afraid i am going to miss out on if i dont mind fuck ?"
The answer was "id miss analysing things and gaining insight on them".
Then i said to myself "so were has this insight gotten me ?"
answer was "fuckin nowhere, backwards, waaaaaay backwards"
and from that day on, as soon as i got any one of those thoughts come into my head, i wouldnt even entertain it for a moment, id just throw it away. When your head is so screwed up and filled with shit i dont think you can fight to change it, i think you have empty it all out and then start filling it up again, this time with only good stuff.
hey like i dunno somepeople might think im some kinda moron or whatever i dunno, but it worked a treat for me
Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 12:03 am Post subject: forgot to log on again
Is it possible that what you thought was rational thinking was in fact distorted thinking due to a mental illness. If you don't have a serious mental illness such as bipolar, OCD, or schizophrenia then I would seriously recommend philosophical and rational thinking for the same exact reasons that I said (could you repeat them back please ). No insult intended, but it maybe possible and you clearing your head is a way of avoiding those symptoms. I think if you build a solid foundation on truths then you can deal with life more honestly, realistically, and effectively. With that said if you do have other issues or are easily 'mind fuck' (once again no offense intended) and you are basically a good person then maybe you are better off not being analytical. But, I think you should still be responsible and try to be somewhat thoughtful when it come to some of your postings.
Maybe you allowed your emotions to direct your thoughts without realizing it. If you allowed correct and rational thoughts to direct your emotions you wouldn't have to hide your head in the sand. And the world would be a much safer and happier place if people learned why and how abuse happens and why and how to deal with abuse and other problems. Yes, it is still very possible not to mind fuck yourself when you are being thoughtful and reasonable.
Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 12:20 am Post subject: ---------
thanks for your post, im going to mull it over you may have something there (uh oh ! )
Quote:
Yes, it is still very possible not to mind fuck yourself when you are being thoughtful and reasonable
hehe im sure, i do think i have become thoughtful and reasonable, just at the same time relaxed. However, i dont have what it takes to be philisophical, i wont let my mind go there cause if i do, uh uh uh uh i cant handle it my mind will spin out
edit: just remember, not everyone can do everything. i dont look at it as a short coming, i just look at it as some people have a capacity for certain things, others dont, know what i mean ? you cant be an expert at everything, yer some people seem to be, but most people arnt
Posted: Wed Nov 17, 2004 1:03 am Post subject: boohyaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh! take two
whaaaa? who says that you have to be an expert at philosophy to be a philosophical thinker? Ok, fine then. If you take a look at one of wistful's prior postings he already says that different people have different areas of skills that they are better at. I don't think wistful ever implied he is an expert at everything
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or am I just being self-conscious? 
). No insult intended, but it maybe possible and you clearing your head is a way of avoiding those symptoms. I think if you build a solid foundation on truths then you can deal with life more honestly, realistically, and effectively. With that said if you do have other issues or are easily 'mind fuck' (once again no offense intended) and you are basically a good person then maybe you are better off not being analytical. But, I think you should still be responsible and try to be somewhat thoughtful when it come to some of your postings.
