Better Ways to Get Over SA

[Michelob512]

A lot of people seem to believe that either CBT or desensitation are the best ways to get over SA (i read how people think if they just get used to being in social situations, there'll be less anxiety). My problem with these are that they really don't get at any of the causes of SA- they mostly just teach you to cope with your problem or deal more with symptoms.

An alternative might be to find the actual beliefs that you have that either completely ot partly cause your emotions, and then to eliminate that fear. There are different ways to do this, and currently I am in a type of therapy that uses this approach.

 

[Anonymous]

What you are describing is CBT. CBT (as far as I know) recommends identifying the things that you are scared of and testing the waters -- finding out in an experiential way what is a valid fear and what isn't. Exposure therapy puts you in a situation where you fear some reaction, and for quick learners, they will recognize that their fears were irrational and will discard them.[/i]

 

[Michelob512]

well, (as far as I know, too) CBT focuses on your thought process and physical symptoms. CBT aims to change your thought process and teach you relaxation techniques, although CBT does address some core issues. I
just think there are much better ways than CBT to get to the core issues (in my opinion they are beliefs formed in childhood, but whatever they are) and to fix the overall problem. Even hypnotherapy, I think, is better than SA (when hypnotherapy is used to address core issues).

 

[Anonymous]

yeah, CBT does all of that. It doesn't neglect understanding the reasons of why we got this way. + alot of people even when they do understand why they are this way act like they are powerless to do anything about it- like their past somehow mystically controlls their behaviour. CBT says ok, we understand our past and why we are acting this way- now do something about it! If something say, me being raped or beaten as a child led me to distort reality and I continued to reinforce those beliefs over and over as I get older- then it is not my past that is truly causing those problems, but rather me not taking responsibility for my current emotions and distorted thinking- the rape or abuse isn't happening over and over again in reality, but my mind is allowing it to have control over me, by me refusing to let the past affect my present and future.

 

[Anonymous]

yeah, CBT does all of that. It doesn't neglect understanding the reasons of why we got this way. + alot of people even when they do understand why they are this way act like they are powerless to do anything about it- like their past somehow mystically controlls their behaviour. CBT says ok, we understand our past and why we are acting this way- now do something about it! If something say, me being raped or beaten as a child led me to distort reality and I continued to reinforce those beliefs over and over as I get older- then it is not my past that is truly causing those problems, but rather me not taking responsibility for my current emotions and distorted thinking- the rape or abuse isn't happening over and over again in reality, but my mind is allowing it to have control over me, by me refusing to let the past affect my present and future.

I meant by me refusing to let go of the past and not allowing it to affect my present or future.

Besides, evironmental conditioning is only part of the factors that go into SA- there are also genetic predispositions- character traits

 

[Michelob512]

Besides, evironmental conditioning is only part of the factors that go into SA- there are also genetic predispositions- character traits

I disagree. If you had a perdect childhood, where your parents always gave you unconditional love, never yelled at you, critized you, or harmed you in any way- do you still think you would have SA? The only contribution genetics make (I think) is that some people are more suceptible to being affected by bad parenting, or suceptible in different ways. You are not genetically afraid of social situations, and I don't see how anyone could prove that to be possible.

CBT says ok, we understand our past and why we are acting this way- now do something about it!

CBT may acknowledge that the past is causing problems, but I don't think it deals with that fact effectively. You use the word "reinforce"- I don't think that matters. if you use certain methods and know the childhood causes of your problems, you can eliminated problems very quickly.

 

[Anonymous]

The only contribution genetics make (I think) is that some people are more suceptible to being affected by bad parenting, or suceptible in different ways. You are not genetically afraid of social situations, and I don't see how anyone could prove that to be possible.

Humans are animals. Scientific studies on rats and monkeys have shown that a deficit in serotonin leads these animals 'afraid' and subordinate in the social structure. When the serotonin was increased they became lesss timid.

There are multiple factors- parenting is one of them. If you receive good parenting then you may not develope SA but you are still likely to be shy, I think. + CBT has been shown to overtime increase serotonin production. of course you can say that this is a natural biproduct of corrective thinking, but at least science has shown their are genetic predispositions.
[
quote]CBT says ok, we understand our past and why we are acting this way- now do something about it![/quote]

CBT may acknowledge that the past is causing problems, but I don't think it deals with that fact effectively. You use the word "reinforce"- I don't think that matters. if you use certain methods and know the childhood causes of your problems, you can eliminated problems very quickly.[/quote] I don't think you get the point- simply knowing the cause alone doesn't solve anything. It helps to know how we got here, but the only thing that can change how we are is what we are doing presently.

 

[Anonymous]

reinforce- yes, reinforce, but mainly I think it is correct to say reitterate and play the past over and over.

 

[Michelob512]

First of all, we have some disagreements but I enjoy arguing them out even if I might be wrong.

Humans are animals. Scientific studies on rats and monkeys have shown that a deficit in serotonin leads these animals 'afraid' and subordinate in the social structure. When the serotonin was increased they became lesss timid.

How can you be sure they were "afraid"- that is very subjective and cannot be determined just by mesuring chemical levels. Just because they were timid does not mean they were afraid, and being timid isn't a character defect- it is only according to society.

I don't think you get the point- simply knowing the cause alone doesn't solve anything. It helps to know how we got here, but the only thing that can change how we are is what we are doing presently.

you're right, simply knowing doesn't change anything- but there are techniques for eliminating problems through understanding your past. Here's an example: www.decisionmaker.com. I'm currently using this method with the help of a proffesional and have seen great changes in two sessions.

 

[Anonymous]

How can you be sure they were "afraid"- that is very subjective and cannot be determined just by mesuring chemical levels. Just because they were timid does not mean they were afraid, and being timid isn't a character defect- it is only according to societ

y.

Usually when someone's heart rate and adrenaline increases then that is a fight or flight response- yes, what is 'fear' maybe subjective, but most people who avoid as a result of adrenaline or a biological response are in most societies considered fearful.


As far as timidity- I agree that it isn't a character defect, but most societies seem to look down upon it as a weakness, and in the animal world alot of animals including these rats take advantage of that and bully the weaker animals. I do think because of our developed brains that we can socially evolve past that.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't think you get the point- simply knowing the cause alone doesn't solve anything. It helps to know how we got here, but the only thing that can change how we are is what we are doing presently.

you're right, simply knowing doesn't change anything- but there are techniques for eliminating problems through understanding your past. Here's an example: www.decisionmaker.com. I'm currently using this method with the help of a proffesional and have seen great changes in two sessions.[/quote]

from the website that you used as an example: "The processes that eliminate beliefs and feelings are not offered as a substitute for professional psychotherapy."

Besides I think alot of these sites you bring up alot of the same ideas as CBT but simply use different wording- basically describing the same ideas but use a different names to describe those ideas.

I maybe wrong, but it seems as though you have a penchant for things that are unconventional or that offer a different solution. And I believe that is great as long as these different ideas are correct and show real statistical evidence that they work. Basically, I am open to anything, but I believe alot of these 'alternative' solutions just mask reality, sort of put a spin on it, and offer temporary solutions. But what isn't based on solid fundamentals sometimes crashes. Like in my opinion alot of people believe praying truly can change the outcome of a situation, but I believe that it offers false hope and can actually depress and hurt those who believe that it can actually magically change reality. I believe that real change sometimes requires hard work, but offers a more permanent change. CBT has been shown- factually to be most benificial in long term change for those who suffer from depression or SA. It doesn't work for everyone but it works for most people who are serious about changing.

PS- meditation does work

 

[Michelob512]

Yeah I am a seeker of unconventional methods, and you might even say I'm just looking for a quick fix. And its good that there are conventional methods, its good that these are statistically proven to be effective. But I'm always looking for ways to improve conventional things, sometimes even discarding them. But the difference between what I've been recently supporting and the other things is that I actually commited to this one, I'm seeing a therapist and spending a lot of money ($150 an hour- that is A LOT for me and most anyone). And I've seen results.

I know I'm not going to convince everybody, but I think its good to explore different options. If nothing else, I've learned a lot from my research.

And I believe that is great as long as these different ideas are correct and show real statistical evidence that they work

That website describes a couple studies, although they are scientifically considered limited (too small a subject sample)

I hope you see my motive in all this: to help myself and to try to help others. We all want to overcome SA. All I can say is, after a couple sessions I've already seen substantial improvement, and the changes are as fundamental and hopefully as permanent as possible.