What's the meaning of life to an atheist?

Klaus

Well-known member
I was an atheist since a very early age.
Yes, the old cliché: "If my life is so hard how can God exist?"
Suicide was a common thought, almost an objective, just a question of time to do...
I used to be cold with other humans and arrogant. My dad started to say to me that I was a bad cold person.

And few years passed and I started to listen some music from a band called "Soulfly" that have very impressive songs (for me) about endurance, strengh, fighting fears, faith in God, feeling hate, angry, desperation, and I somehow started to want to be more than a materialistic "new age" kind of person.

Words like hope, strengh, peace and nature became much more important in my life. I realized I didn't want life to be just about studying, working, eating, sleeping, sex and death. My miserable depressive life would not be worth fighting for if life is just about that.
People that say they can leave alone and don't need no one, and just need to be rich and powerful to be happy will never be happy. We, social phobics, know that, don't we?

And I started to seek stories about suffering at the bible, a member here called "worrywot" wrote to me to read about the "Ecclesiastes" book of the bible. And I read and that had a huge impact in my life.

And suddenly I was not an atheist anymore, because if I was an atheist my life would be just a blank failed life without a purpose!
A meaningless existence is what I don't want for me. That would be very hard to understand. "This guys life is a nightmare and he just keep living, doesn't he know that his life is a silly joke and all Universe exist for nothing?"
That would be a cruely. And I can't believe that. I simply can't.

If God does not exist and our lives are just so important as the lives of flies, I see no reason why enduring so much pain. We would be just a joke in this case. And I see no reason not to do mass suicides.

But if life is about persistence, hope, love, dreams, defeating the evil, seeking freedom and peace, I assume life is worth living. And the only way, for me, to keep waking up and fighting my demons every day is to believing at this last option.

What's the purpose of keep fighting depression and social phobia in a world without a purpose and meaning for you?
 
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NathanielWingatePeaslee

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Staff member
Are you sure this is in the right forum?

For anyone at all, the only meaning of life is the meaning you find for yourself. Religion provides a ready-made meaning. If you can accept that, there you go: done.

A lot of people don't feel compelled to spend time thinking about any greater meaning--Christians and atheists alike. A lack of deeper meaning does not equate to suicide as a logical option for everyone.

It's really very subjective.
 

Klaus

Well-known member
Are you sure this is in the right forum?

For anyone at all, the only meaning of life is the meaning you find for yourself. Religion provides a ready-made meaning. If you can accept that, there you go: done.

A lot of people don't feel compelled to spend time thinking about any greater meaning--Christians and atheists alike. A lack of deeper meaning does not equate to suicide as a logical option for everyone.

It's really very subjective.

Nathaniel, sorry if I'm posting at the wrong forum.

A lack of deeper meaning, for me, was the logical solution for suicide since the pain was too great to bear...

Thanks,
 

DanFC

Well-known member
How so Nathaniel? Even the most renowned atheistic thinkers realize that suicide is an option, but should be disregarded for various reasons. Some believe in the progress of mankind or of themselves, others realize an absurdity (like Camus, one of the thinkers I respect the most) but feel that the struggle for the existence provides the meaning for existence itself. I could debate such a topic, but there really is no point and this isn't the right place for it. But you're right in saying that many, both religious and non-religious (even though they still have their own beliefs that may constitute as something more, as such, many are hypocritical), don't think about their beliefs and remain shallow.

I myself am agnostic, which means if there is supernatural, I'm screwed, and if there's not, I'm withholding myself for nothing. Hahah.
 

NathanielWingatePeaslee

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Staff member
Nathaniel, sorry if I'm posting at the wrong forum.
It's just that I recall Remus saying something about deleting the next thread posted in the wrong forum. Maybe I'm misremembering.

How so Nathaniel?

I myself am agnostic, which means if there is supernatural, I'm screwed, and if there's not, I'm withholding myself for nothing. Hahah.
How so which part exactly?

I am also agnostic. If there is a supernatural, I doubt that I'm screwed though. I see no reason to think it would have anything to do with belief sets that a bunch of silly humans came up with in the past couple thousand years. I am a moral person because it pleases me to be so, not because of a fear of punishment or hope for eternal reward.
 

davidburke

Well-known member
If you ask this question of 100 different atheists, I expect you will get 100 different answers. That is because, to an atheist, (like NathanielWingatePeaslee said) life is whatever you make of it

Contrary to what many religious think, atheists don't look at life as meaningless or without purpose; far from it. We believe that this is the only life we will ever have, so we'd better make the most of it. Each life is very precious to an us it is something that is absolutely irreplaceable, it doesn't last forever, and there are no second chances. Sure, we could just kill ourselves and be done with it, but why? We're here, so we might as well see what we can make of the experience while we have it!

but Christians are going through their whole lives simply waiting for death, so that they can get to a promised afterlife So to us, living a life in hopes of getting to a mythical world seems like a life wasted.
 

DanFC

Well-known member
To Nathaniel:

I was asking how so that suicide is not the logical option for you; I'm not saying it should be of course, but I just wanted to see specifically what you thought about the matter.

And as to what you just wrote, see, but you're making a judgment call. Supernatural is not othernatural, it's superseding the natural. If the supernatural does exist, than one could say (though not absolutely) that the supernatural affects the natural in some way, shape, or form in a way a three-dimensional object affects the placement of two-dimensional shapes (that's the way I think of it anyways). As such it is feasible to suggest that what we define as morals can originate from the supernatural (though, as before, one can't determine absolutely).

Here's a thought experiment I like to think of, and let me know what you think would be the result of this:
Let's say that we as are something like gods or eternal observers. Let's say we take a primordial soup of our own and see what happens. If we do it enough times, hopefully some microbionts would form and eventually there would hopefully be life. Now, let's say we can change the environment such that it is always optimal to the evolution of a species in terms of intelligence. Given enough trials, we would hopefully get a species that becomes super-intelligent. Once that species reaches a point of self-cognition, and realizing others and whatnot beyond others but as other selves, what do you think would be the first things they experience? And what do you think they would do in result of that experience?


David:

Your posts show how little you know of the Christian faith. Christians do not wait around for an afterlife, their main purpose is to love God with all their hearts (and as such inherently accept Jesus Christ), and through this, they make the most of their own lives while indeed "storing" a future for themselves. But any fundamental Christian would tell you that the purpose of the Christian is not to go Heaven.

Furthermore, I find your posts a bit hypocritical. You are assuming that experience is good, that realizations are good, but why, why would they be good? You make your own beliefs about happiness that such things are good, and as such in respect to "making things up", you're experiences are equivalent to a Christian who simply believes in Christ because it feels good.
 
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DanFC

Well-known member
Persona, why don't you act on your thoughts and kill people?

And I despise generalizations. I know Christians who directly contradict everything you've said about them. There are idiots who are Christians, there are idiots of other faiths, there are idiots that are atheists, but that's no reason to generalize. I mean, the most obvious example I can have to your claim are people like C.S. Lewis and G.K. Chesterson.
 

Klaus

Well-known member
There is no higher purpose. Things are as they are because something happened and caused the gigantic line of dominoes to move and we are part of that inevitable movement.
Therefore, life has no purpose. It just is. But death also doesn't have greater meaning. You live or you die.

But why should that bother you? Or anyone? People want to believe that somebody makes the decisions for them. That some deity has already planned it all. Then they don't have to think with their own brain. That's why religious people often (sorry, but it's true) are imbeciles. They follow rules set by some people long time ago and persecute and destroy and oppress based on that, with out ever stopping for a second to THINK if it's really right or wrong. Foolish sheeps, most of the humanity.

Sorry, your life has no "purpose". Your parents had sex, you were born, someday you'll die. Be happy you have the freedom to do almost anything you want in your life. Many people are less fortunate, their freedoms have been taken away, often by RELIGIOUS people.

For those of us who are not psychopaths one of the hardest things in life is figuring out where we stand in morals. Most people skip this part. Most people hate thinking that deep. They just believe what their parents, friends, priest and politicians tell them to.
If you care about others, it's because of how our brains work by nature and peer pressure.

You don't need religion to see good in others or beauty in nature or whatever. Nature alone in all it's glory is amazing enough. But once again, you need to LOOK not just be brainwashed and even that is hard for most people.

I don't want to sound arrogant and I hate arrogance. But I've come to realize that humanity is evil and there's nothing that could change it. Good people are one in a hundred. I truly sometimes wish people would just die. Nothing personal...

Ok, I respect your opinion.
But don't you think this cold materialistic approach change us into cold, bitter people? Do you think this is good for you and people around you?

About morality:
What is the "correct moral" to follow? The marxist moral? The christian moral? The "vodu" moral?
 

davidburke

Well-known member
David:

Your posts show how little you know of the Christian faith. Christians do not wait around for an afterlife, their main purpose is to love God with all their hearts (and as such inherently accept Jesus Christ), and through this, they make the most of their own lives while indeed "storing" a future for themselves. But any fundamental Christian would tell you that the purpose of the Christian is not to go Heaven.

Furthermore, I find your posts a bit hypocritical. You are assuming that experience is good, that realizations are good, but why, why would they be good? You make your own beliefs about happiness that such things are good, and as such in respect to "making things up", you're experiences are equivalent to a Christian who simply believes in Christ because it feels good.

i wasn't meaning to attack or say what they believe i was simply responding to the question What's the meaning of life to an atheist? and explaining how atheists think about it
 
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davidburke

Well-known member
"For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."
Carl Sagan
 

DanFC

Well-known member
But not all atheists think that David, it's what you think atheists (some or all) believe. As such, is there no subjectivity in what you stated?


Anyways, I'd like to keep chatting on this but I''ll be gone until tonight. Just did not want anyone to think I split ;)
 

NathanielWingatePeaslee

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Staff member
I was asking how so that suicide is not the logical option for you
I think suicide, for the most part, seems logical to a depressed person and it more to do with the depression than whether life has a deeper meaning.

And as to what you just wrote, see, but you're making a judgment call. Supernatural is not othernatural, it's superseding the natural. If the supernatural does exist, than one could say (though not absolutely) that the supernatural affects the natural in some way, shape, or form in a way a three-dimensional object affects the placement of two-dimensional shapes (that's the way I think of it anyways). As such it is feasible to suggest that what we define as morals can originate from the supernatural (though, as before, one can't determine absolutely).

Supposing it were possible that some force from outside our universe could act in our universe in ways that defy the laws of physics as we know them, there's still no reason at all to think that there wouldn't be laws governing this outside force. In fact, there's every reason to think there would be such laws, however unknowable by us they may be. I think the very concept of 'supernatural' is one of the sillier inventions of humans.

realizing others and whatnot beyond others but as other selves

You'll have to clarify this bit before I can answer.
 

NathanielWingatePeaslee

Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!
Staff member
That's why religious people often (sorry, but it's true) are imbeciles. They follow rules set by some people long time ago and persecute and destroy and oppress based on that
I have to agree with Dan about this. I've known atheists and agnostics who were both 'good' and 'bad' people, as with religious people. I've also known brilliant people who were very religious and agnostics and atheists who were dim.
 
Couldn't we just generalize it that beveling or not believing is (or should be) a personal choice that each one makes in his/hers life.

I like this discussion and am awaiting more interesting posts.
 

Nack

Banned
With my life the way it has been. Its hard to believe in any God. I can't believe that we're here; with this life with a purpose. At the same time I don't believe that science is the answer to everything. Course science has its evidence to back up its theories; such as unexplainable things happens from time to time, that science cannot prove. I try to stay an open-minded person about these things. All in all, bits and pieces from each has its purpose. It makes me sane, hehe.
 

worrywort

Well-known member
If there is no God, then there is no absolute truth, meaning or morality either.

Nietzsche - The Parable of the Madman

I'm glad to have helped Klaus! Ecclesiastes is still my favourite book in the Bible. Solomon was a genius! If you ever wanna talk some more feel free to send me a message.


The thing that stumps me is that I often hear it said that if there is no God then we are free to create our own meaning and morality. i.e. "what's true for you is true for you and what's true for me is to true for me". But here's my question; is that statement itself true for ALL people or not? If so, then it is self refuting. If not, and it is only true for you, then why should I believe anything that you say?

So far it seems to me that all forms of relativism are ultimately self refuting. Like when people say that there are no such things as absolute truths! If that statement were true then it would be an absolute truth itself! To me, it seems that the only way morality, truth and meaning can make any sense, is if there is a transcendent absolute creator of that meaning, truth and morality above human kind.

"The greatest question of our time is not communism vs. individualism, not Europe vs. America, not even the East vs. the West; it is whether men can bear to live without God."
— Will Durant

Ravi Zacharias - Can Man Live Without God [Google Video]
 
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