phoenix1

Hear me out here- I’ve been doing a lot of thinking.

Have you ever wondered why we (who are socially anxious) naturally resist solutions to our problems? If you don’t believe me, just scan the threads and see where someone tries to directly help (with more than just sympathy) and you will see a lot of resistance and anger and sarcasm towards anyone who thinks they have a solution. I’m certainly no exception either. Every time someone says they know how to change social anxiety, I get all defensive and want to pick them apart.

Why then does that happen? The answer I believe now is that the majority of people with social anxiety are in some kind of acceptance holding pattern. The more you fight anxiety, the more anxiety you will receive. After awhile, we realize we cant fight any longer and we start to accept and give in to our situation to some degree. I believe that is what stabilizes social anxiety after so many years. To some degree, we simply stop fighting and accept our situation with loathing. We realize we cant fight it and we submit to it and in doing so it mostly stabilizes anxiety – meaning it doesn’t get much worse (although it doesn’t get any better either). So most of us reach a point where we give in and stop fighting it some of the time and the fear subsides a bit, but we still hate who we are, so every time we accept it, the fear goes a bit, but then we start to try to fight it again and make it worse to the point where we give in and accept it again. I think you get the idea..the pattern goes on and on.

I think that is why we especially resist solutions to social anxiety due to the idea that we are in some kind of acceptance pattern and that deep down we know that accepting who we are and not fighting helps us the most. We are tired of fighting and weary of making our anxiety worse.

The reason that acceptance is a pattern is that we still hate who we are, that even when we accept our situation, it will eventually crash again because we will start to try to change and adapt again which will bring back all the anxiety. So we are ‘stuck’

Read the excellent post ‘Unconditional Love’ in this forum. You can see how if we learn to accept and to LOVE who we are, then we can break the pattern and move away from anxiety.

Spearmint

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charlieHungerford

Hmmmm. Totally disagree to some parts but agree to other parts. I think there are some of us who are working especially hard at overcoming SA and are making great progress.

Maybe the reason people are quick to disagree about solutions is because everyone suffers differently and what is the answer for one person is absolute nonsense to the next person. We all have developed fears for different reasons and suffer in different ways. I made the mistake in the past thinking what was right for me to overcome SA is right for everyone, but I hold my hands up and say I was wrong, we all suffer very differently and have very different insecurities.

Don't judge everyone who suffers from SA as resisting solutions. Its so far from the truth. But I do agree some people do just want to put to dismiss everything, I have encountered people like that.

I do agree for myself that acceptance of oneself is vital in order to overcome SA, but it certainly isn't the full answer. i.e. we have believed situations or certain people are to be feared because of maybe negative experiences and avoidance, this can only be overcome by complete analysis behind the fears and bringing things back into reality.

signs05

I'm with Charliehungerford on this one. I am personally VERY willing to try anything that will remove my social anxiety. This does not mean that I can not distinguish between someone actually out there to help and someone who is obviously trying to cash in on my anxiety problems.

phoenix1

Well the point I’m trying to make is that I believe a majority of people with SA eventually learn to ‘accept’ their situation after trying to fight it for so long. Not everyone is at that point and it wavers back and forth between fighting and submitting it seems. But that acceptance means that you have to believe that your case is hopeless. It actually brings about comfort and relief to me to believe that I just have to accept that this is how my life is going to play out and stop killing myself trying to fight it. I’m sure I’m not the only one. But anyway, if one is at that state of mind, then you are obviously less likely to want to find solutions to your problem. We seem to know that acceptance brings relief. Many times we just want to know that we arnt alone (like this website) and not how to change our situation.

Like I said, not everyone is at that point though. I’m trying to account for what I see as an unusual high resistance whenever someone tries to ‘help’. I'm happy for anyone who is doing great or desiring specific help. Not intending to judge anyone or their personal situation, it was a curiosity of mine. I'm quite strange like that.

frizboy

I feel like this post is aimed primarily at the posters who objected to Morty and/or powerwithin's threads, myself included. It should be noted, as has already been made apparent, that most, if not all of us, want help and have no objections to good solutions. Bad solutions are a waste of time, however. So let's make sure we're making a distinction here. Do people with SA resist bad solutions? Yes! And they should. So if someone comes to this forum offering a bad solution, it is incumbent upon us to demonstrate its shortcomings and offer better alternatives, lest someone fall prey to some false or overblown promise and end up wasting resources.

So I guess the relevant question is: Do we resist good solutions? I have no evidence to hazard an answer to this question at this time. Suffice it to say, however, social anxiety and depressive symptoms often go hand-in-hand. One of the main cognitive components of depression is hopelessness. This hopelessness can manifest in noncompliance with treatment options, an inability to see things getting better in the future, a preoccupation with failure, etc. So, to the extent that SA and hopelessness are correlated, I would expect some resistance.

frizboy

I would, finally, like to add that in my personal experience, accepting anxiety has had the opposite effect. As long as I accepted it, I grew rigid in my ways, did not try to find solutions, began thinking of how I could bend my future to fit around it. I grew more and more anxious, and more and more withdrawn.

Today I am fighting anxiety. I am being proactive, seeking solutions, applying what I've learned, taking risks, and I am starting to feel a lot better about myself. Obviously, when I say I am "fighting anxiety," that's not giving a lot of information. But for space reasons, and because I do feel that everyone is different and that everyone will find different solutions useful, I feel no need to post what I've done. That said, if anyone is interested on my perspective on their own SA and what might be done, let me know and I'll see what I can contribute.

phoenix1

No particular thread in mind. I’ve been around a long time just reading posts and it was just something that seemed a little out of place and was curious about. It was also a ploy to try to help people at the same time if you read between the lines

Some interesting points brought up though. What is ‘fighting’ anxiety?

Working hard in constructive ways like analyzing our perceptions and thoughts and the reality of such is extremely important and are great tools and techniques to help improve SA. But the ‘fight’ I’m talking about is the direct fight against anxiety – such as hating yourself for being shy / anxious or hating who you are and wanting so bad to change and be like everyone else. The more you directly fight your anxiety, the more anxiety you will have. The more you want to change your anxiety directly, the more anxiety will be created in an effort to change itself.

I think it may be more than just a correlation between helplessness and SA. I think our minds are designed to give up the ‘fight’ when we realize its just not working. SA is one of the cruelest things because it fuels itself and we cant directly fight it. It may take years, but sooner or later most of us do give up to some degree and accept that we cant change it (atleast part of the time). We give up trying perhaps? And even good techniques like the ones CharlieHungerford is working through may seem too difficult for many people.

There's a lot of defensive repsonses, but I'm not trying to criticize anyone. It's probably more about me because I know that many times I've given up trying because I cant directly fight SA. Not depression per se, but just accepting that I cant win this battle. Many times I find comfort in no longer fighting it and perhaps that makes it a little more difficult to try other ways to get better..such as analzying thoughts, exercising, eating right, relaxation, meditation and so on and so on.

ignisfatuus

Phoenix1, you are partially correct in your observation of SA sufferers staying in a holding pattern, but this has a lot to do with the services available. As Frizboy pointed out, most, if not all of us, are willing to try something new, provided it isn't some off the wall treatment.

So, what services are available to us? Being as we are, particularly those of us with SA generalized type, it is virtually impossible to reach out to the current help in place. One of the big problems a lot of SAers have is using the phone; perusing my phonebook, I see about five percent of the psychologists listed have e-mail addresses they can be contacted at. That's a minor point. The major problem is the one-size-fits-all CBT they like to use. Unfortunately, it's not quite that easy. SA has specific issues that need to be addressed, and using the generic treatment for anxiety disorders doesn't cut it. Which brings me to another glaring hole in the treatments available: the utter lack of SA CBT groups.

I see this said a lot as well - "Only you can help yourself." This is a hollow platitude. If someone jumped out of a window low enough to survive, albeit barely, as you were passing by, would you say this to them? Doubtful. Just because you cannot see the mental wounds and trauma of another, doesn't mean it isn't there, and it doesn't make it any less serious. As you have probably experienced at one time or another, this leads to accusations of malingering or overreacting which serves to continually knock down whatever little progress you have made on constructing a foundation that has already been kicked down multiple times. And we roll the stone up the hill one more time, knowing it will inevitably tumble to the base once more.

charlieHungerford

I don't really understand the purpose of this post.

I agree with frizboy - when you read someone's comments about how they believe you overcome SA, you immediately know if that method is accurate and applicable to your own situation. I know I read people's post with interest on how to overcome SA, but often feel no that really is not appropriate for me. So of course I will not look into this. I remember doing hypnotherapy for a few sessions because the hypnotherapist told me she would make me overcome all my lack of confidence and feeling anxious in certain situations/around certain people. She said that all I have to do in order to overcome my anxiety is to tell myself 'I am confident, I am confident, I am confident'. And if I am going to have to do public speaking to rehearse what I have to say over and over and over again so that I know it 10000% so that I will know exactly what I have to say and not mess up. What a load of rubbish! This is probably good advcie for people who are confident already and want to improve. I told her this was so inaccurate for how I suffer and she claimed it was correct and I had to trust her and give it a try. But it was such a load of rubbish that I told her that she doesn't understand.

What you say about the fight against anxiety, I just cannot relate to, we must suffer differently? I don't hate myself or want to be like everyone else, I just want to overcome my lack of confidence/SA and be myself because I like so much about myself and feel when I have the confidence to allow myself to be myself I will succeed in everything.

Anyway, I am glad you posted that, its an interesting debate and killed half an hour of my boring day at work!