Are "male losers" doomed forever?

iheart said:

From my observation, it seems like guys with SA have better luck than women when it comes to finding a partner. Generally, women are more willing to overlook shortcomings than men.

Click to expand...

It's interesting for me that your impression is opposite to the one I have!

State_Of_Trance said:

I'm curious about just how bad your social skills really are. If you don't mind my prying, would you mind giving some examples?

Click to expand...

Well, I don't know if it's an example of poor social skills per se, but I'm often unable to say hello to a woman in public, even if they smile at me, or show some friendly gesture. Somehow I've gotten into this habit of just nodding my head when such things occur. It's like.. I seem to have trouble vocalizing or getting the words out, when I haven't spoken for a while. When I've tried, the result is sometimes an awkward "hello." So when I come to think of it, this is pretty darn bad.

As for major things, you have group socializing, where I just tend to shut down. In fact I mostly cannot stand group socializing, and yet I'm told that's often how people meet. Or otherwise, people meet in group atmospheres, which I can hardly stand either.. I think there is so much "fake-ness" in these situations, anyway.

State_Of_Trance said:

I'll start! 22 years old. About to graduate college. Never made a single college friend. A few "friends" from childhood but I don't really communicate with them at all. No girlfriend ever. Every once in a while I say something dumb enough to get it permanently etched in my memory. I never really "go out." A lot of TvTropes, Steam, Netflix, etc.

List some good things about yourself as well! For my case, I work hard. Grades are fine. I read a lot of old books. I'm thoughtful even though it's hard to see from the outside.

Let's go down the rabbit hole. See where it takes us.

Click to expand...

For now I'll just say you've got more going for yourself. Graduating college would have been a gargantuan feat for me. But good grades in college weren't something that described me, because 1) I wasn't good academically past the 9th grade, no thanks to ADD 2) the social environment was too overbearing.. college is too heavy on the social aspect.. I had to fold.

Looks-wise, I believe I am average. But too thin, and "always planning on going to the gym," but I haven't done it yet.

I could have written more, but this kind of thing is hard. I am not a proud person.. no reason to be!

You're not a loser. You're a human being just like the rest of us. My suggestion is to try not to worry so much about the social structure and just be an individual. This has been working for me. I noticed my anxiety as slightly improved since I just stopped caring what other people think. And not to sound like a **** but let's be honest...:through social anxiety I personally gained a lot of observation time. This allowed me to conclude one thing. Most people(in the US at least) are selfish and don't think for themselves. Just strive to be better than the norm. Don't allow what society says define you. So I moved back in with my parents recently. Lost my family ect. I was defeated for months. Working on getting a second job this week and I won't take no for an answer. Why? Because at least I can support myself and be an individual all by my lonesome. Just keep a healthy mind. For me being more confident in myself as a person and also allowing people's little ******* antics to bounce off of me has improved my situation slightly. Even more females are making passes at me(I still struggle on the inside to man up and make a move out of fear of rejection though)but it's gotten a lot better. Now my next step is to try and land a damn date. I used to stress living back at home but I don't care about criticizing myself or anything. I want to take a cute girl that i gel with out so dammit that's what I'll do. No time cap on it. I'll just be picky and have fun with it. My message for you my friend is to never label yourself a loser. You are yourself. No matter what. Not a loser. A loser follows the heard because he can't think for himself so he or she blindly goes along with society's standards. Be proud of who you are. Meditate and search and identify all of your good qualities(trust me. They exist). And when you do smile because you're special. And it will still be rough occasionally but you will prevail. When you take pride in being an individual it shows. Hope I have been of some assistance.

Megaten said:

I dont think its so much an SA guy rejecting you as opposed to us rejecting ourselves before we get out of the gate. Even if you came straight out and told a guy with those problems that you were interested, they might flee in fear of "screwing things up". I've done this tons of times and it left me with quite a bit of shame Ive yet to get over.

Click to expand...

So have I, unfortunately.

Bronson99 said:

It's interesting for me that your impression is opposite to the one I have!

Click to expand...

Oh definitely...generally, women are naturally more nurturing than men. I think there is an often too prevalent "survival of the fittest" mentality where both genders strive to be with the best partner they can get...the prettiest, strongest, etc. But far too few people look beyond their vanity for character and integrity in a romantic interest. Especially nowadays, when most news channels require a female anchor to look as much like video vixxen as possible (guess why). The widely accepted standard has pretty much always been that the female is typically the more physically attractive of the pair while the male can be average-looking or physically unattractive. I'm not saying that women have lower standards or that this scenario applies to everyone. But rather, it's an example of where dating tends to fare to the male's advantage. I mean, come on...how often (in media or real life) do you see men pursue a woman first and foremost because she has a big heart?

What's my point? I think men are too picky when it comes to dating.
I am too and I know a lot of other women are as well...but I think we're all missing opportunities for someone real in the hot pursuit of what we idolize.

No ones a loser. I really hate it when people refer to themselves this way. Anyone who calls you one is an a-s-s hole. That is all you need to focus on.

iheart said:

The widely accepted standard has pretty much always been that the female is typically the more physically attractive of the pair while the male can be average-looking or physically unattractive.

Click to expand...

This may be the case, I'll acknowledge that. However, have you considered that even if it's not required to a man to look "amazing," the standards are merely shifted onto other things.. things like confidence, social status, job, etc.? I don't think women, generally, are willing to extend a free pass for such things. This is where, I imagine, lots of men who have social anxiety/shyness will fall short.. This is more what I'm getting at.

iheart said:

I'm not saying that women have lower standards or that this scenario applies to everyone. But rather, it's an example of where dating tends to fare to the male's advantage. I mean, come on...how often (in media or real life) do you see men pursue a woman first and foremost because she has a big heart?

Click to expand...

It's hard for women as well. I won't deny such a thing.

iheart said:

What's my point? I think men are too picky when it comes to dating.
I am too and I know a lot of other women are as well...but I think we're all missing opportunities for someone real in the hot pursuit of what we idolize.

Click to expand...

Agree.

iheart said:

Oh definitely...generally, women are naturally more nurturing than men. I think there is an often too prevalent "survival of the fittest" mentality where both genders strive to be with the best partner they can get...the prettiest, strongest, etc. But far too few people look beyond their vanity for character and integrity in a romantic interest. Especially nowadays, when most news channels require a female anchor to look as much like video vixxen as possible (guess why). The widely accepted standard has pretty much always been that the female is typically the more physically attractive of the pair while the male can be average-looking or physically unattractive. I'm not saying that women have lower standards or that this scenario applies to everyone. But rather, it's an example of where dating tends to fare to the male's advantage. I mean, come on...how often (in media or real life) do you see men pursue a woman first and foremost because she has a big heart?

What's my point? I think men are too picky when it comes to dating.
I am too and I know a lot of other women are as well...but I think we're all missing opportunities for someone real in the hot pursuit of what we idolize.

Click to expand...

I might have to agree with Bronson99 on this one. I dont wanna get into trouble by starting a "who has it worse" battle, but I will say that women can be pretty picky about quite a few things. Physical beauty just might not be yall number one priority.

iheart said:

What's my point? I think men are too picky when it comes to dating.
I am too and I know a lot of other women are as well...but I think we're all missing opportunities for someone real in the hot pursuit of what we idolize.

Click to expand...

It's all a product of living in a somewhat stable land with plentiful resources. Take those two things away and you will see the pickiness dry up real quick.

When people's basic life needs are being met then they start to focus on status.

Having a desirable mate projects a person's status or in some cases even raises a person's status.

Couple this with the fact that everyone is walking around with a biological daemon(or "service" for Windows users ) that is always encouraging us to mate with the best DNA we can get for our hypothetical offspring and what you have is the perfect storm of pickiness.

iheart said:

Interesting. I actually seek out men with SA or at least someone who is very introverted. Let me tell you, that is no easy task! Do guys with SA assume a woman with SA might be undesirable, incompatible?

From my observation, it seems like guys with SA have better luck than women when it comes to finding a partner. Generally, women are more willing to overlook shortcomings than men.

I think I blew my chances with a fellow social phobe years ago. My last boyfriend was very extroverted and never accepted my SA as legit. I learned from that difficult experience to stick with my own kind. But finding them is almost impossible for obvious reasons. Frustrating.

Click to expand...

I too would prefer a partner with SA or for them to be introverted.
No pressure to go to BBQ's, parties, stand around with drink in hand watching ppl get drunk, talk shit and knife each other in the back.

But yea it is difficult to find that someone. Even if you meet that someone, you will probably think they are not interested in you because they are quiet.

S_Spartan said:

It's all a product of living in a somewhat stable land with plentiful resources. Take those two things away and you will see the pickiness dry up real quick.

When people's basic life needs are being met then they start to focus on status.

Having a desirable mate projects a person's status or in some cases even raises a person's status.

Couple this with the fact that everyone is walking around with a biological daemon(or "service" for Windows users ) that is always encouraging us to mate with the best DNA we can get for our hypothetical offspring and what you have is the perfect storm of pickiness.

Click to expand...

Not to be a pessimist, but this seems a bit at odds with the "just make her tingle" philosophy..

Bronson99 said:

Not to be a pessimist, but this seems a bit at odds with the "just make her tingle" philosophy..

Click to expand...

No, because a guy who is making a woman tingle is displaying his superior DNA or at least trying to sell her the idea that his DNA is superior to other men.

It's really not much different from a woman putting on make up and wearing form fitting clothes. She is really just trying to display or enhance her superior DNA markers.

The whole thing is a sub-conscious dance that we are all thrown into and it has worked for thousands of years.

What has changed now though is that technology, political stability, and plentiful resources have made it so that the sexes don't need each other like they did before and it's also given people the illusion that they have unlimited options and they feel like they can afford to be picky.

So you have a lot of people not taking things seriously in the dating world and the marriage rate is dropping.

Bronson99 said:

Well, I don't know if it's an example of poor social skills per se, but I'm often unable to say hello to a woman in public, even if they smile at me, or show some friendly gesture. Somehow I've gotten into this habit of just nodding my head when such things occur. It's like.. I seem to have trouble vocalizing or getting the words out, when I haven't spoken for a while. When I've tried, the result is sometimes an awkward "hello." So when I come to think of it, this is pretty darn bad.

As for major things, you have group socializing, where I just tend to shut down. In fact I mostly cannot stand group socializing, and yet I'm told that's often how people meet. Or otherwise, people meet in group atmospheres, which I can hardly stand either.. I think there is so much "fake-ness" in these situations, anyway.

For now I'll just say you've got more going for yourself. Graduating college would have been a gargantuan feat for me. But good grades in college weren't something that described me, because 1) I wasn't good academically past the 9th grade, no thanks to ADD 2) the social environment was too overbearing.. college is too heavy on the social aspect.. I had to fold.

Looks-wise, I believe I am average. But too thin, and "always planning on going to the gym," but I haven't done it yet.

Click to expand...

I'm similar in some ways. Hate socializing, average-ish looking, never get around to working out, etc.

I'll second the whole "college is too social" thing. I only made it because I live at home and not on campus. The moment class is over I come right back. I could avoid socializing just like that. Had I been living on campus things probably would've been NASTY.

I don't know much about ADD. Does it make studying and the like impossible or just really hard?

I fear I might be doomed forever. Permanent change is so hard. Especially when doing it all on your own.

S_Spartan said:

No, because a guy who is making a woman tingle is displaying his superior DNA or at least trying to sell her the idea that his DNA is superior to other men.

Click to expand...

Time to work on my clown game, and my day game. Night game is not going to work.. that's about the "scene," and that ain't an environment I can jell in.

S_Spartan said:

What has changed now though is that technology, political stability, and plentiful resources have made it so that the sexes don't need each other like they did before and it's also given people the illusion that they have unlimited options and they feel like they can afford to be picky.

So you have a lot of people not taking things seriously in the dating world and the marriage rate is dropping.

Click to expand...

I hear there's a more level playing ground in some European countries. Perhaps I'll head there

State_Of_Trance said:

I don't know much about ADD. Does it make studying and the like impossible or just really hard?

Click to expand...

Really hard. Short-term memory deficiency is common for most with ADD. I can read a sentence at the beginning of a paragraph, come to the end of that paragraph, and realize I don't understand because I wasn't paying enough attention. I wish I could tell you how slow it makes reading, compared to the average person. If the material is stimulating and/or easy reading, then sometimes I can read about "half the speed" of the average person, but most reading material is not stimulating or easy.

Bronson99 said:

Really hard. Short-term memory deficiency is common for most with ADD. I can read a sentence at the beginning of a paragraph, come to the end of that paragraph, and realize I don't understand because I wasn't paying enough attention. I wish I could tell you how slow it makes reading, compared to the average person. If the material is stimulating and/or easy reading, then sometimes I can read about "half the speed" of the average person, but most reading material is not stimulating or easy.

Click to expand...

They dont make any kinda special accommodations for people with ADD or anything? I know they always say on the syllabus something about helping those with disabilities but I dont know if learning disabilities count.

Rawz said:

I fear I might be doomed forever. Permanent change is so hard. Especially when doing it all on your own.

Click to expand...

Yep! I feel the same way, Rawz

Bronson99 said:

Time to work on my clown game, and my day game. Night game is not going to work.. that's about the "scene," and that ain't an environment I can jell in.

Click to expand...

Yep, the interesting thing is that approaching girls in public in 2015 will actually set a dude apart from the hoards of thirsty guys playing the numbers game online.

It could even be the best time for a guy to be a Luddite and not even bother with texting a girl he meets in public but just insist on good old fashioned phone calls and even then only to arrange a time to meet.

Oh and there are guys who go outside of America to find women they can gel with better.

I kind of like getting older and not being so much ruled by my hormones.