Open Relationships vs. Monogamy

[Flanscho]

I was waiting for you to weigh in on this discussion, I know you have the Scientific approach to things too. What are your thoughts on the brain chemistry around bonding between partners? I'd be interested to hear your take on that

Does it help you if I wear a red cape with a Cthulhufish on it as I parade into the discussion?

You mean how certain hormones work in your body when you fall in love, and whatnot?
It's possible to bond to more than one person in this manner. Oxytocin and the other involved hormones don't care about that. The only thing that, in my opinion, does seem to care about that, are certain social norms, or views based on religions or subcultures. Those can clash with the concept of open relationships of course and prevent any bonding process from actually happening (or as deep as it could).

In the end, it's in my opinion all a matter of social norms. Like, with how pink is these days associated with girls, and blue with boys, and a century ago it was the other way round. Norms change, societies do. In some ways to the worse ("fantasy capri sun, now only for girls", "the new pen, especially designed for the delicate female hand"), and in some ways to the better (considering the increasing numbers of Atheists).

 

[NathanielWingatePeaslee]

Does it help you if I wear a red cape with a Cthulhufish on it as I parade into the discussion?

Don't forget the gold parachute pants. Those are essential. :thumbup:

 

[HHDisturbed]

And you also don't have to deal with jealousy anymore. If you trust your partner, and you know that he/she loves you, why be jealous?

Exactly!


To Joule: There is a very special bonding between the two of us and our long-term "friends with benefits" but we also have the utmost respect for one another and each other's marriages. We leave what happens in the bedroom in the bedroom and any other time you would never know that we are all playmates. We all flirt a lot when we are out but it is always subtle and discreet (especially in our home town). However, we do get a bit more frisky in public when out of town. We even trust each other so much to bring our friends and families together without any worries.

It really makes us all feel like a bunch of teenagers even though we are all early to mid 40's. I might add that you would probably not guess a single one of us to be over 40. Maybe that is because we are all are happy and have such a zest for life. Each of us are very young at heart and feel like we are having the time of our lives.

 

[Sprawling]

When I was with my last girl fiend in a 3 year relationship, we both did a lot of reading on polyamorous relationships. I found it fascinating, yet not something I am personally interested in. Swinging, which is different altogether isn't for me either.

Sex for me is like a religious experience even though I'm far from religious. I guess the correct term would be more like a spiritual experience. Sex for just sex sake doesn't do that much for me. I enjoy the bonding, the merging of the mind, soul and the whole being. Weird, because I'm male.

We were also friends with a couple that went the both the swinging and polyamorous routes. Experience vary widely and of course one needs mutual consent. With out mutual consent or having one partner who's not whole hearteningly into it can spell disaster.

Power to those who can follow through with it.

 

[coyote]

Just wanted to know other people's thoughts on the subject. However, negative comments will not change our feelings on the subject. We are simply having WAY to much fun. And hey, that's really all it is...just fun.

do you only go in for couples? what if my girlfriend wasn't into that - do you ever hook up with single guys? can you send me a photo of your wife?

just curious

 

[HHDisturbed]

Couples only for us, thank you. No photos 4 U. LOL We are not currently seeking any new playmates. We are extremely happy with the one very hot couple we have as playmates.

My wife happens to be quite sexy though. She also is a mental health therapist who just finished her 2nd Masters Degree. Smart and beautiful. I am not only her biggest client, but I am one very lucky guy! Thank goodness she doesn't charge me much to lie on my own couch. LOL

 

[gazelle]

I guess the correct term would be more like a spiritual experience. Sex for just sex sake doesn't do that much for me. I enjoy the bonding, the merging of the mind, soul and the whole being.

Agreed.

With out mutual consent or having one partner who's not whole hearteningly into it can spell disaster.

Power to those who can follow through with it.

Yes I've experienced this disaster, I think it would need a woman with super high levels of self esteem to be able to pull off an open relationship with someone she "truly" loves. While due to their hormones men might have it differently, I also find it a bit strange how a woman could get involved with someone else if she truly loved that guy and was sure that she was loved in return... unless they really weren't that much in love and carnal aspects were more highlighted in their relationship, in that case it would make sense for them to get bored after a while crave for some change.

 

[HHDisturbed]

I also find it a bit strange how a woman could get involved with someone else if she truly loved that guy and was sure that she was loved in return... unless they really weren't that much in love and carnal aspects were more highlighted in their relationship, in that case it would make sense for them to get bored after a while crave for some change.

Again, I completely agree that it is not for everyone. But my wife and I are still very happy and in love after 11+ years.

You are aware that "just sex" and "making love" are two completely different things, right? When we play with others it is "just sex" without the loving emotions. It's just exciting and fun. Then we go back to real life and leave it there.

What you are describing is cheating, what I am talking about is something very different. We engage in the fulfillment of our deepest sexual fantasies TOGETHER. In our case we only play together, in the same room, with one other couple and NEVER separately, and both the girls are bi.

This is so much more common than you would ever imagine.

 

[gazelle]

What you are describing is cheating, what I am talking about is something very different. We engage in the fulfillment of our deepest sexual fantasies TOGETHER. In our case we only play together, in the same room, with one other couple and NEVER separately, and both the girls are bi.

This is so much more common than you would ever imagine.

Then in that case what you're talking about is quite different than what I have in mind of an open relationship. What you're talking about sounds more like a sexual preference than an open relationship... Anyhow, people have different preferences, if it makes your life happier then good for you

 

[jc972]

Been in both, prefer monogamy for a marriage - I wouldn't have it any other way. Just a dating thing or FWB, I'll likely not be faithful so why should she?

 

[alwayssunnyinphiladelphia]

Again, I completely agree that it is not for everyone. But my wife and I are still very happy and in love after 11+ years.

You are aware that "just sex" and "making love" are two completely different things, right? When we play with others it is "just sex" without the loving emotions. It's just exciting and fun. Then we go back to real life and leave it there.

What you are describing is cheating, what I am talking about is something very different. We engage in the fulfillment of our deepest sexual fantasies TOGETHER. In our case we only play together, in the same room, with one other couple and NEVER separately, and both the girls are bi.

This is so much more common than you would ever imagine.

Has anyone seem Louis Therouxs documentary where he goes to the swinger party, one of the most depressing thing you will ever see. It seems really sleazy or seedy or almost lonely or something I dunno it is not what I want to be doing when I am in my 40s.

this is it Louis therouxs weird weekends it was on tv a long time ago Louis Theroux Weird Weekends S01E03 - Swingers - YouTube

 

[kilojoule]

To Joule: There is a very special bonding between the two of us and our long-term "friends with benefits" but we also have the utmost respect for one another and each other's marriages. We leave what happens in the bedroom in the bedroom and any other time you would never know that we are all playmates. We all flirt a lot when we are out but it is always subtle and discreet (especially in our home town). However, we do get a bit more frisky in public when out of town. We even trust each other so much to bring our friends and families together without any worries.

It really makes us all feel like a bunch of teenagers even though we are all early to mid 40's. I might add that you would probably not guess a single one of us to be over 40. Maybe that is because we are all are happy and have such a zest for life. Each of us are very young at heart and feel like we are having the time of our lives.

No I understand. The Scientist in me is curious about the chemical differences that might be present in people in open relationships v monogamous relationships. It would be an interesting study, that's all I was thinking.

 

[AGR]

Now I am sure that there will likely be a flood of replies condemning this concept, but why? It is NOT cheating if a married couple consensually agrees to participate in sexual activities with others together WITH their spouse. To believe otherwise is simply wrong because sex is not love and love is not sex. Let's face it, life is way too short not to experience all the wonderful things life has to offer. Monogamy is merely a "societal norm" pushed by religion which we are all expected to conform to.

.

I think sex goes hand in hand with love,I dont understand how I could have sex or be so intimate with someone and not develop feelings,also just as you enjoy open relationships someone will enjoy monogamy,its not a societal norm and I am as far away as you can think from being a religious person,I do agree however that I am in the minority.

 

[HHDisturbed]

Has anyone seem Louis Therouxs documentary where he goes to the swinger party, one of the most depressing thing you will ever see. It seems really sleazy or seedy or almost lonely or something I dunno it is not what I want to be doing when I am in my 40s.

We have never attended a single "swingers party" or "swingers club". To us that is way beyond where we ever wanted to be. We are anything but lonely, sleazy, slutty, or seedy. We are just a normal, healthy couple who enjoy a little extra naughtiness on occasion.

It is rather interesting to me how the concept of swinging gets the reaction it does from some when more than 50% of all marriages end in divorce...often due to infidelity. We are happy, in-love and will be together till the end. I have no desire to ever cheat on my wife. Why would I?

Regardless of what anyone says...Sex is not love and love is not sex. Love is an emotion and a commitment. Again, "just sex" and "making love" are two very different things.

 

[drakir]

if i were even lucky to GET a freaking woman! then i would love her 100%, and having sex with HER alone should plz me enough...

have we really reached a point were mankind is so arrogant.. so... selfish.. that people (who have been born with a silver spoon shoved up their a$$) only wants more? that loving one at a time isnt enough? are YOUR primitive desires to f*ck other people greater then your ability to love?
sex is not love... but still... people wouldnt like their boyfriend/girlfriend kissing another person, now would they? and kissing (in itself) isnt love... its because its a sign of affection and intimacy, thats beyond friendship.

and just because it works or is "good" for you, dosent mean it would mean so to others. (that would just be arrogant)

by the way: this thing is really just a fetish... a shared sexual fantasy (all because of sexual gluttony)

 

[Flanscho]

if i were even lucky to GET a freaking woman! then i would love her 100%, and having sex with HER should plz me... not everyone else.
have we really reached a point were mankind is so arrogant.. so... selfish.. that loving one at a time isnt enough? are YOUR primitive desires to f*ck other people greater then your ability to love?
sex is not love... but still... people wouldnt like their boyfriend/girlfriend kissing another person, now would they? and kissing (in itself) isnt love... its because its a sign of affection and intimacy, thats beyond friendship.

and just because it works or is "good" for you, dosent mean it would mean so to others. (that would just be arrogant)

by the way: this thing is really just a fetish... a shared sexual fantasy (all because of sexual gluttony)

It's all a matter of point of view.

Your comment could be reworded to:
"if i were even lucky to GET a freaking woman! then i would love her 100%, and ensure her becoming happy by allowing her to do whatever she desires, instead of forcing her to just to get close only with me, even if I can't please all of he rneeds!

have we really reached a point were mankind is so arrogant.. so... selfish.. that owning a person is more important than loving a person?

are YOUR primitive desires to control other people greater then your ability to love?

by the way: this monogamous thing is really just a religious fetish... a shared sexual fantasy (all that because of considering oneself more important than the partner)"

 

[drakir]

It's all a matter of point of view.

Your comment could be reworded to:
"if i were even lucky to GET a freaking woman! then i would love her 100%, and ensure her becoming happy by allowing her to do whatever she desires, instead of forcing her to just to get close only with me, even if I can't please all of he rneeds!

have we really reached a point were mankind is so arrogant.. so... selfish.. that owning a person is more important than loving a person?

are YOUR primitive desires to control other people greater then your ability to love?

by the way: this monogamous thing is really just a religious fetish... a shared sexual fantasy (all that because of considering oneself more important than the partner)"

what are you talking about??? where did i claim anything of that? owning her? forcing her? "considering oneself more important than the partner"? nowhere in my message did i say anything of that.

"ensure her becoming happy by allowing her to do whatever she desires, instead of forcing her to just to get close only with me, even if I can't please all of he rneeds!" ..... yeah... because when it comes to love feelings only apply to one person in the relationship (sarcasm). i suffer from body dysmorphic disorder, depression, anxiety, and bad self-confidence... it would hurt me a great deal if shes more interested in d1cks then me.. and we wouldnt be togheter.. as i would feel used

just because you want it, dosent mean you allways get it.. and you shouldnt either.. thats what i ment with "who have been born with a silver spoon shoved up their a$$" cuz people are too spoiled these days

 

[Flanscho]

what are you talking about??? where did i claim anything of that? owning her? forcing her? "considering oneself more important than the partner"? nowhere in my message did i say anything of that.

Where did I claim that, if I talk about open relationships, it has to do with nothing but sex?

Some people feel jealousy because they can't bear not having a partner completely for himself/herself. They want to have the partner all alone. Whether that is better for the partner or not is what you didn't talk about.

In a monogamous relationship, if both persons involved are perfectly fine with those terms, then that's of course a fine thing. But often they just pretend to. And then one partner is forcing the other, sometimes even without knowing, into doing something that person doesn't want to do. Like, for example, giving up all contact to a person that's also loved.

You have your opinion. And opinions can't be right or wrong. But your opinion is also very... well, strict. And aggressively worded.

Though the problem with this discussion is that the OP talked about two completely different subctions: open relationships and swinger clubs. The latter one is truly just about sex. Which doesn't make it bad by itself, since it allows someone to get certain needs and desires fulfilled if the partner can't or doesn't want to do so. The former is about a different mindset. A different view on relationships in general, where it's considered possible that one person has strong feelings for several other people at once, and that it's harmful for that person to suppress those feelings.

justst because you want it, dosent mean you allways get it.. and you shouldnt either.. thats what i ment with "who have been born with a silver spoon shoved up their a$$" cuz people are too spoiled these days

I'm spoiled because I want my partner to be happy without trying to force our relationship into the corset that outdated views on that subject want us to? You should work on your language. Only because of us disagreeing, you don't have to become impolite.
I don't know how old you are. If you are a teenager or in your early twenties, then maybe you don't have the necessary maturity to understand the concept of an open relationship, because you know relationships from TV and books and other people, without having made the necessary experiences yourself.

i suffer from body dysmorphic disorder, depression, anxiety, and bad self-confidence...

That's irrelevant for the discussion. No matter what you suffer from, in a relationship, you should strife to make the other person happy.

it would hurt me a great deal if shes more interested in d1cks then me.. and we wouldnt be togheter.. as i would feel used

That's what I meant with "forcing someone". If she wouldn't have exactly the right viewpoint, you'd end the relationship. You force her to bow down to your views, or to leave. Would you even listen to her? With that harsh language of yours I get the impression that you wouldn't. You'd just shout "you don't fit to me, I feel used" and end it.

 

[drakir]

Where did I claim that, if I talk about open relationships, it has to do with nothing but sex?

Some people feel jealousy because they can't bear not having a partner completely for himself/herself. They want to have the partner all alone. Whether that is better for the partner or not is what you didn't talk about.

In a monogamous relationship, if both persons involved are perfectly fine with those terms, then that's of course a fine thing. But often they just pretend to. And then one partner is forcing the other, sometimes even without knowing, into doing something that person doesn't want to do. Like, for example, giving up all contact to a person that's also loved.

You have your opinion. And opinions can't be right or wrong. But your opinion is also very... well, strict. And aggressively worded.

Though the problem with this discussion is that the OP talked about two completely different subctions: open relationships and swinger clubs. The latter one is truly just about sex. Which doesn't make it bad by itself, since it allows someone to get certain needs and desires fulfilled if the partner can't or doesn't want to do so. The former is about a different mindset. A different view on relationships in general, where it's considered possible that one person has strong feelings for several other people at once, and that it's harmful for that person to suppress those feelings.

did you read my entire message?

i grew up without intamacy from anyone... i have never experienced love.. except falling in love, and i can count all the times i have on my one hand... so i rarely fall in love.
and here im sitting.. inside my house, chained by my own mental illnesses, alone.. and yet.. for other people its just free-for-all... ofc you become hateful... alot :bat: :kickingmyself:

 

[drakir]

flanscho... your pulling things out of your arse... and i never sayed i would force anyone
and i think you have missunderstood the meaning of the word relationship
relationship (r-lshn-shp)
n.
1. The condition or fact of being related; connection or association.
2. Connection by blood or marriage; kinship.
3. A particular type of connection existing between people related to or having dealings with each other: has a close relationship with his siblings.
4. A romantic or sexual involvement.

there is no "sacrifice your own life for the pure reason to plz the person you love". people who thinks such things are just asking to get used. there are evil people out there that knows how to manipulate.. just because you love somone dosent mean their "god".