For those who want to stop feeling like this

[steve111]

Ok, i had posted a couple of question last week to get a feel about why you experience social anxiety.

I have noticed, through research and my own experience, that anxiety is not an illness, it is a thought. If you look at the major theorists (freud,jung, etc..), it is quit eclear that behaviour is shaped through life experience and perception. My reality is different than yours.

If you want to better yourself, one ingredient is of great importance. You have to convince yourself that living like this is far worse than facing your fears.

You see, what i did when i first started to better myself, is that i drew up a list of things that would happen to me, or things i would miss out on because of my anxiety disorder. THings like:

Could not compete my ph.d
could not be able to have kids
feel like a prisonner
die young since my body is always on edge
screw up all my relationships, etc....

I then drew up a list of things i could accomplish and how i would feel if i would not experience this disorder. like:

speak my mind,
be all that i can be
own a business
do speeches, etc...

After analyzing the pros and cons of this disorder, i then convinced myself that living without this was way better than living with it. When that happened, my brain recognized the negative effects of this and i associated disgust about the disorder.

THis disgust was far worse than the pain i would go through if i did have to go to the mall.

THis digust was far worse than the pain i would go through if i talked to that girl

THis digust was far worse than the pain i would go through if i ignored my racing, pounding and irregular heartbeat.

after a while, things got better. I no longer felt anxious as before. I no longer feared things i did. And it only got better.

If i would put a gun to your head and order you to talk to a stranger, would you? Probably, because the pain of dying is greater than the pain of speaking with the stranger. So,IMHO, in order to change, you have to associated great pain to retain the status quo and great pleasure to expand your horizon. And once you do this, once you think that a situation is so bad, do dreadful, that i can't continue like this, you will change. Your mind has no choice.

 

[manall]

hi,
i think that it is interesting you should mention this. just the other day when i was driving, i was thinking about why i am so afriad of talking to people. the only reasonable explanation i could come up with was this. if i were to take the chance and converse with another, i would put myself in a vulnerable position. what if that person did not like me, and thought i was boring. it would prove everything that i think about myself, that i am unlikable. the pain of that is just too great. it is so much safer to avoid situations where you expose yourself to judgement.

 

[lonelycody]

hi,
what if that person did not like me, and thought i was boring. it would prove everything that i think about myself, that i am unlikable. the pain of that is just too great. it is so much safer to avoid situations where you expose yourself to judgement.

I have felt this way for along time and have missed out on many opportunities in life as I have been too scared and afraid of what other people think of me. I don't care anymore. If someone does not like me for whatever reason it is nothing to do with me, they are the ones with the problem and if they don't like me for the way i am then good luck to them, I don't want to know them.

Once you realise that there are people out there who will not like you and alot who will, you are half way there. the only way to overcome this is to change the way you think, I have been very negative and down on myself for years and its really hard to change that but eventually the time comes when you say I've had enough and then put the effort in to do something about it.

 

[Anonymous]

i have to agree that i feel overly pissed off at myself and disgusted i wanna puke

 

[Anonymous]

crazy thoughts make me disgusted make me wanna puke

after the day ends i wanna explode knowing i wasnt myself today. i cant be myself knowing in a false sorta way that people wont like me.people already seem to hate me...whenever they try to approach me i shy away and answer with a few words i think are safe to say...but they dont understand they think this is me. they must think im a bitch. someone called me a bitch once cuz he got fed up trying to get my attention or talk to me and get me to talk. i cut some of skin in the beginning of the week. one side of my cheek i slashed and i bled.. everyone asks me how i am and how i got cut. i pretend it's nothing.. i'm such an idiot. but im so hurt and im suffering so much it's like im bleeding inside.

 

[racheH]

I agree that social phobia isn't an illness, I'm even writing a coursework essay about it. Parts of the brain that allow us to have all kinds of phobias, including social phobias, can be seen on brain scans; they're in everyone, as a survival technique, so thinks nature. Not everyone's experiences demand that they use these abilities, and I think genes probably influence susceptibility to them. However, the definition of 'illness' just doesn't fit with my understanding of it.

I think the key to ending a phobia is to understand it, and realise that your brain doesn't do it because it hates you (so I thought :lol: ) or because there's something wrong with it. What it's doing is a natural reaction to external influences. Setting goals must help with any challenge, but I think until you understand why you as an individual feel the way you do sometimes, specifically when it’s rational and when it’s not, you can’t know which goals will really help you solve it from those that will just block out feelings temporarily. If through readiness you can identify as soon as the symptoms occur that they are an irrational response, and what thought processes are behind them, you know how to oppose those thought processes to rational ones before the feelings run away with you.

Saying vaguely ‘I shouldn’t be feeling like this, I choose to feel something else’ will only replace one irrational emotion with another, and you won’t learn anything about yourself that way. I’ve been trying the former method this year and it wasn’t an over night recovery, because my subconscious was suspicious of my theories I guess, and I was aware of being scared of where not fearing disapproval would lead me (expulsion maybe?) Now I know even that fear was really just of more disapproval. I had to think of the most I could ever be looked down on and convince myself that unless the people acted on it against me, it really wouldn’t matter. Eventually, I taught that ‘other me’ not to fear things the same way she learnt to fear them – through experience and example. Gradually, she accepted that I was right; disapproval in its own right isn’t necessarily bad for me. Like a child, she needed ideas explained and demonstrated, not forced upon her.

These are my experiences anyway. Good luck to anyone figuring their own way out of this

 

[Anonymous]

yeah, all that helps... what is your definition of a disorder though? And, have you done any research on other anxieties disorders to help give you insight... more later... you should try to be objective and not to define a preconception I think.

 

[Anonymous]

so you are saying that the genes involved in the mechanisms can't be abnormal? That some don't set normal boundaries? I think most people agree with you, but as with an disorder that involves irrational fears, most of us are aware of them... and most people here agree that we most rationally reason our way to better mental health... but we also sense that something genetic + environmental (nurture and cognitive distortions) has allowed ourselves to be this way in the fist way.

 

[racheH]

Guest 1: I've done quite a bit of my own research this year, when I at last realised what was making me act they way I always have. I go by dictionary definitions, not my own. An official definition of a phobia is 'an irrational fear', which I don't think humans are born with (although pidgeons are scared of hawk silhouttes even when they don't know what one is). A definition of a disorder is 'a mental or bodily condition marked primarily by sufficient disorganization of personality, mind, and emotions to seriously impair the normal psychological functioning of the individual called also mental illness'. My opinions are based on my own experiences, my research, and a considerable amount of theorising. It's a very important subject to me, so I think about it a lot, and I'm interested to see ideas contrary to my own. If my personal views come across as stated fact; it's not intentional, but 'I think' before every line is boring to type and to read.

Guest 2:I think it's more likely to be an evolutionary feature in humans, as it is in many other species, to be able to develop phobias, rather than abnormal genes. Some people may be born with predispositions to getting them, as is suggested by how many severe phobics have multiple fears. I'm not ruling anything out though; I'm no genes expert, but I think no normal human is born unable to develop a phobia - it just doesn't make sense to me.

 

[tommydog]

i agree with this guy .. mostly. I think the truth is, most of us end up with physical conditions aswell from prolonged depression and/or anxiety, things such as chemical imbalances and such, which do complicated things further.

Notwithstanding, i like the theory about making choices, and choosing whats more important.

Look iv done what youd call some solesearching over the last week or so, and iv decided FUCK this disorder. FUCK living with fear.

Im gathering my resources now, im asking around, im talking to people, getting advice, im going to go to my gp in the next few weeks ... and then, im going to take everything iv learned, and all at once im gonna put it all together and blow this shit right out of the water. Iv decided, i dont care if i have to face fears, i have to break through the barrier, im not going to let my rediculous and nonsensical fears hold me back from doing what i want.

edit : im not trying to inspire anyone else to be a hero. I am at a progressed stage of recovery. I dont recomend anyone who is having major panic attacks to go out and be a cowboy like that, but same principle, just take it in smaller bites.

 

[wistful_dementia]

hiya

Guest 1: "I've done quite a bit of my own research this year, when I at last realised what was making me act they way I always have." Ok, you aren't alone there.

"I go by dictionary definitions, not my own."
You aren't alone there either.

" An official definition of a phobia is 'an irrational fear', which I don't think humans are born with (although pidgeons are scared of hawk silhouttes even when they don't know what one is)." Sure you can gather that from phobia : an exaggerated usually inexplicable and illogical fear of a particular object, class of objects, or situation.

Humans aren't born with 'irrational fear' but we are born with the genetics.... or a genetic predisposition or a range for feeling fear or not feeling fear, hence some are more susceptible to fear than others. When we feel fear we may not have a realistic view towards of our environment. Now couple your theories together with social-psychological theories... evolution has developed a social structure even for humans. Do you remember the experiments on apes and rats showing that some of them are naturally more timid and reclusive? Those animals also showed a deficit in serotonin and other neurotransmitters. When these transmitters were artificially increased, these animals became more assertive and less shy. This is why that in some humans medications actually help. But they aren't a permenant fix, because of the underlying irrational thoughts. Hence, modern therapy includes CBT , including for the more severe cases medication.

So if you have someone who is in a social environment who may have a chemical imbalance (lower serotonin levels, etc.) and may have an innate nervousness towards large groups and people whom he/she deems as 'higher on the social ladder' he or she will not see his or her environment in a realistic light. Of course this isn't the entire spectrum of irrational thoughts that SA's have... and they do vary from person to person, but I think both genetics and irrational thinking plays a major role in SA. You used an example of this irrational fear as the pigion. Agreed, in part. But as I have proposed to you there is more to it.

A definition of a disorder is 'a mental or bodily condition marked primarily by sufficient disorganization of personality, mind, and emotions to seriously impair the normal psychological functioning of the individual called also mental illness'. Yes, I agree that is a definition of a disorder. I like you, do not think of SA as an illness.

My opinions are based on my own experiences, my research, and a considerable amount of theorising." Yay, me too : )

It's a very important subject to me, so I think about it a lot, and I'm interested to see ideas contrary to my own. Meee tooo...

"If my personal views come across as stated fact; it's not intentional, but 'I think' before every line is boring to type and to read. " Me too! And no, I really mean it... I am not being condescending, although I try to leave poetic language for poetry and logic for rational thought. And I am also more concerned with the ideas I am putting forth rather than grammar and spelling, etc. Just me : )

Guest 2:"I think it's more likely to be an evolutionary feature in humans as it is in many other species, to be able to develop phobias, rather than abnormal genes" Agreed, genetics are the result of evolution. But, I think the guest2 may have a point in that a genetic abnormality is an abnormal variation or defect of a normal gene. Hence, we are genetically predisposed to a disorder or condition such as SA. Think of SA cyclically: first you have the genetic predisposition, then you have the nurturing factors of the family environment that you were raised in, then you have the social environment that surrounds you, and you have the irrational interpretation of potential dangers. As mature people we can learn how to not let the past affect how we feel presently. And we can also learn how not to let others affect how we presently feel (with reasonable limitations), but for some corretive thinking is quicker and easier than others. I wish I could say that for myself. I am making definite progress, but I still need to learn more social skills and have more casual conversations... any-who...

"I'm not ruling anything out though; I'm no genes expert, but I think no normal human is born unable to develop a phobia - it just doesn't make sense to me." I'm not ruling anything out either.... but I do think that we people , specifically SA's can be born with a sensitivity towards social fears, not the irrational thoughts themselves. But, if you have a sensitivity it is easier to develope these distortions, especially in abusive environments. That is why good nurturing and parenting can help to an extent (depending on the severityof the condition. For a more realistic picture of SA- I would recommend to the psychology buffs- to research from the social-psychological, evolutionary-psychology, neuropsychology, and cognitive-behavioural psychology perspectives.

I have no problems with other people sharing their theories. But, I am just wary of some people giving ammo to people who don't understand SA. Those people may jump to simple conclusion like 'hey it's all in your mind' (irrational thinking) just snap out of it! or 'your just scared of people, therefore you hate them', or 'socialisation is natural, everyone can and should do it', etc., etc.. some of these people maybe abusive because of their ignorance.

One last thing, I agree there is hope : ) For some rational thinking alone can help. And so does CBT and/or medication. But for some it is going to be easier for others. It may depend on things such as emotional intelligence and maturity also.

Some people's SA may be caused from cognitive distortions alone, but some may have to work harder at it. Actually, CBT (which works on corrective rational thinking, and exposure) evidence has shown that CBT and rationalising can actually change brain chemistry over time. We can discuss more later if you want. I have to go now, I'm very tired.

 

[LilMissTragic]

If the fear of pain is worse than the phobia, then how come when i was 14 I got myself run over to get out of singing in the school choir???
Thankfully, I'm overcoming my Sp but when it was at its worse I woulda shot myself rather than talked to anyone.

 

[Crimefish]

I think the anxiety is worse than the little disgust I may feel at myself for not being able to fit into what society expects of me. I'm an introvert. I'm happy on my own.

 

[Anonymous]

as far as social groups... I'm an introvert also... I never felt the need to be a part of the gang or submit to someone who felt that they were an 'alpha' type. I'm just saying that a social heirarchy does exist. And we can still feel it.. the tention is still there for some of us, whether or not we want to be a part of it. And I also believe that because of our brains we can make an concious decision to evolve past that.

 

[Anonymous]

wistful_dementia: Wow, someone who finds this as interesting as I do!

"We can discuss more later if you want. I have to go now, I'm very tired." Sure, I’d like that; I’m too busy to reply to all of your points now as well.

"I am not being condescending, although I try to leave poetic language for poetry and logic for rational thought. And I am also more concerned with the ideas I am putting forth rather than grammar and spelling, etc. Just me : )"
You’re not the first person to find my ‘poetic’ style of conversation odd, but I’m afraid that’s just part of me, and to express myself in metaphors comes more naturally because that’s how some ideas come to me initially, before I translate them into literal English. Actually, sometimes I alter my original posts completely because they would take a pointless amount of decoding on the part of everyone else, when I agree; getting points across clearly is the most important thing. Occasionally I leave the original thoughts in, complimentary to literal explanations, and I know I run the risk of that being interpreted as pomp, but I’ve done enough hiding behind conventional behaviour to know that misconceptions are inevitable and may as well be based on the real me instead of fiction.
I couldn’t understand what the heck I had been writing about if I didn’t use grammar, so ridiculously long are my sentences, so I check it out of consideration for all the poor people who try to find any sense in them. It’s boring and no self-gratifying task, trust me. I also think that deliberately sloppy or phonetic spelling is unfair on anyone who might not speak English as a first language, as I’ve been in the reverse position myself on other sites, prompting me to always make that effort.
Sorry for the two paragraphs of self-justification, but as a female I reserve the right to bore people with waffle. :lol: Seriously, I want to clear up any doubts about my reasons for writing on here in one sitting, questioning of my integrity being a particular sensitivity of mine.

Speak to you later

worrydoll: Shucks, glad I could help. Thanks, the essay’s nearly done, it’s looking OK to me. I just hope the markers are weird like us lot and find it interesting :lol:

 

[racheH]

:lol: ^Sorry, that last guest^ was me. Forgot to log in, idiot.^

 

[Anonymous]

ouch, idiot? a little harsh on yourself