The "Push and Pull" with Shy Guys...

[XxJustMexX]

This kind of stems from a previous thread I had (here) about affection and shy guys...

I was reading up a lot on shyness as I've been wanting to understand a guy I'm dating who is extremely shy with me... and I read that shyness will cause someone to pull away after they feel they've shown "too much emotion" so they'll start acting a little indifferent for a bit. First of all, is this true?

Second, I do notice this going on with my shy guy sometimes. I feel as if when we have a great day one day, he'll be a little distant the next. Tuesday night, we had an awesome night together. Stayed up late talking, had a few beers, everything was perfectly normal. He even mustered up enough courage (alcohol helps with his shyness) to initiate kisses (if you read my last thread, he has a major problem with initiating physical stuff...) and everything seemed great! Those are the kinds of nights that make me feel REALLY good about where our relationship stands and gives me the confidence I need to continue on with the long process of cracking open a shy guy...

But then... the next day comes. And this isn't the first time this has happened. He'll be distant and less loving. I know he isn't trying to avoid me, the shyness is just kicking back in I guess. He'll always have an excuse to shy away again. Be it a headache, stomachache, toothache, whatever... Now, he really might have these issues... (in that case I think he needs to see a doctor lol) Because sometimes he does drink quite a bit and hangovers cause him to feel crappy the next day, and we did just go to the dentist for a toothache for him... Anyway, so the next day after that great day (which was yesterday) he was distant again... says he didn't feel well and just wasn't as giddy and happy as he normally is. This I seem to notice usually happens after we have a great/fun night together.

I know he's not trying to be mean, and actually in no way is he actually ever mean about it. He's more like, in his own little world avoiding everybody, not just me. I know right now he's a little depressed due to lack of employment and waiting on a couple job offers, so his ego's a bit torn right now so that's probably a bit part of the depression hitting (to add to the alcohol causing depression).

Anyway, I wanted people's thoughts on this push/pull effect with shy people. I read that it's caused by them feeling they've opened up too much, so they decide subconsciously to slow down (to basically save humiliation). Do any of you do this? Is there anything I can do? Right now, all I do is give him the space that he looks like he needs. If he seems to be shying away, I just leave him be. I do tell him that if there's anything I can do that I'm there for him. He lives with me (different rooms, he's renting a room from me) so we don't get space from each other... So my way of giving him space is to do my own thing and leave him be. The next day (sometimes later that night) things are fine again. Is this his way of dealing with the shyness and his insecurities...? Does he shy away because he feels he's done too much? I'd like to hear from some shy guys about this...

 

[¯\(º_o)/¯]

it sounds like im just like your guy. so i will give you a bit of perspective of his end, if he is like me.

I had a female friend and we were close like you two, and i loved her to death. but because of my shyness, i really just didnt know how to go about it, i felt very awkward telling her my feelings or opening up to her, even tho i really wanted to.

The biggest thing is i was afraid to scare her off, i didnt know if i tried to hold her hand she wouldnt like it, i didnt know if i should kiss her, even tho i really wanted to and she would kiss me when she wanted to.

one thing i have known is "most" girls are scared away by over bearing guys, or i guess you could say needy, so i tried very hard not to be "needy" inturn i would try and stay a bit distant from her but still close at the same time

There were alot of issues that came between us because of my shyness and anxiety, that in the end unfortunatly for me it didnt work out. but i feel it is just because i didnt know what to do when it came to her, and she didnt value me enough to help me threw it(she knew about my SA but dont think she under stood it)

So since you value this guy, and are willing to help him, i think thats a good start, alot of people with SA are uncomfortable with certain things, and one of the best ways for them to get over it is to force them into it, iv gotten over quite a bit that way

i know this isnt the most informative or much advice, i just hope it helps you to realize a possibility of what he may be feeling

ps. the time i was able to open upto her the most was while drunk... maybe a few drinks together alone my help

 

[XxJustMexX]

ps. the time i was able to open upto her the most was while drunk... maybe a few drinks together alone my help

Ahhh... alcohol. That plays a big part in this... Here's the thing with that. OK, we live together. I'm also renting out a room to a couple, who happens to be one of my best friends; and her boyfriend, which is his best friend. Well, the guy roomie is a major alcoholic. Let's just say he's been drunk for like 3 weeks straight now... point being there's always alcohol in the house...

I think he really does use alcohol as an excuse to open up with me and be who he wants to be with me. We normally drink on the weekends, and on the weekdays every now and then I'll have a drink or two to unwind after work. Since he's lived here with me we've had plenty of nights alone together having drinks and having a ball. These are the nights that don't make me question our relationship... It's the days after (basically all I said in the first post lol) that make me question things.

When we're drunk we have the time of our lives. We'll stay up all night together just having a blast. Hell there's times the only reason we slept is because he'd be too drunk and he'd pass out... It's like a world with just the two of us. He can be himself and he's happy. But then the next day comes and he's right back to being Mr. Shyguy... I have to add, in the last month he has made progress though. But it still does seem to me that he makes excuses to crawl back into his shell when he's not drinking. I don't want to make him sound like he has a drinking problem at all... by no means does he have a problem. It just seems that the moment he gets a beer in his hand, he's automatically happy and not so shy anymore... Hell he doesn't even have to drink it, just as long as he has a beer in his hand it seems to boost his confidence! But of course like any concerned person I don't want him turning into an alkie... lol. He is pretty responsible about it and only drinks when there's no responsibilities the next day, so I guess that's good.

But here's the thing... Do I really want to get him drunk anytime I need affection? How long will this last? How long will I have to depend on alcohol to get him to be open with me? These are the questions that play in my mind. Ya, it's great when we're drinking together, we have the time of our lives... but do I really want to be drunk all the time to enjoy our time together? Of course I still enjoy his company when we're sober, but at those times I'm the only one really talking and he's in his own world. I sometimes feel like I'm closing in on his space when he's in these funks. For instance last night, we were watching TV in the living room and for like an hour nobody talked. He makes me really self conscious sometimes when he does this... But then I have to realize that he does this with everyone when he's sober... and that he's really just a quiet introvert.

But I will say this... the best times we've had together, he was drinking. I don't doubt how much he cares for me. He shows me every day with the things he does for me. There has never been a time when I asked him for something and he didn't happily do it for me as I know he wants me to be happy. He has never intentionally hurt me... I guess most of this comes from the insecurities that I'm now picking up because of his behavior...

I know you said you went through this and yes, what you explained definitely does match him. He shows me he cares in all ways but words, which I am working on to understand since I know a lot of guys are too shy to open up in that sense. I have to realize that he shows he cares in other ways... what he does for me, how he treats me, how he looks at me etc... I can tell in his eyes that he's in love with me and he's struggling to let it be known.

 

[XxJustMexX]

I had a female friend and we were close like you two, and i loved her to death. but because of my shyness, i really just didnt know how to go about it, i felt very awkward telling her my feelings or opening up to her, even tho i really wanted to.

The biggest thing is i was afraid to scare her off, i didnt know if i tried to hold her hand she wouldnt like it, i didnt know if i should kiss her, even tho i really wanted to and she would kiss me when she wanted to.

one thing i have known is "most" girls are scared away by over bearing guys, or i guess you could say needy, so i tried very hard not to be "needy" inturn i would try and stay a bit distant from her but still close at the same time

Questions if I may... What could she have done to help you open up and be more comfortable? I keep hearing that time, patience, and constant initiation works best to ease up a shy guy... But of course, being human myself I start to get self-conscious after a while of doing all the initiating. I start doubting myself, him, and even the relationship. I want SO bad to help him and work through this with him because he's such a great person. I want to have enough courage and self-esteem for the both of us, at least long enough for him to break out of his shell and give me a little more security...

The only things keeping me by his side right now are his actions, which I'm trying very hard to believe, rather than his words (which obviously are lacking since he's pretty quiet...). Aside from his lack of verbal communication and physical affection (that I wrote about in the above link, previous thread) he shows me in many other ways how much he cares for me... And that's what's keeping me here. Otherwise I think any other woman would have just thought he wasn't interested and walked away. Matter of fact the only reason we're dating is because I initiated everything after finding out about his feelings for me through our roommates... If they woulda never told me, we'd be waaaaaay at the beginning with him gawking at me from a mile away!

Blah. This is just frustrating at times. But I keep being told that it'll all be worth it in the end. Which I believe, which is why I'm still here.

So back to my question... What can I do to help him out of this shell? (Aside from time...) Assuming that he's just like you, does my initiating things help...? (I'm very affectionate, so we do hug, kiss, etc... but I have to either initiate or give him my signals lol) I just start to feel like I'm the one being too affectionate now... But if he doesn't like it, I can easily stop.

I guess basically my question to you is how do you want to be treated by the girl you like/love...? What do you want her to do to make things easier for you...? Does her advances (though she may not think it does) help? If she told you straight up that it's ok to [fill in the blanks] would you do it? (For example if he's too shy to hold my hand, will letting him know it's ok change anything in his nervous mind?) These are the types of things that will ease my mind a little....

 

[coyote]

I guess basically my question to you is how do you want to be treated by the girl you like/love...?

personally, i prefer clear, open, honest communication

no hints or game-playing

i'm not quite as shy as the guy you're describing, but i'm not always confident of the approach i'm taking if i don't have a clear sign that the light is green

it has really helped me in the past when a woman told me things such as "you know, i really liked it when you took the lead like that..." or "that was very exciting when you were a little aggressive" or "i like it when you put your hand here" etc.

positive feedback is always well received

that's why i now keep a scorecard in my nightstand

 

[XxJustMexX]

it has really helped me in the past when a woman told me things such as "you know, i really liked it when you took the lead like that..." or "that was very exciting when you were a little aggressive" or "i like it when you put your hand here" etc.

positive feedback is always well received

Thank you. You know, you're the second person that's told me that in pretty much the same words... I've been trying it and it's definitely helped! On one instance when I started feeling like I myself had started being too affectionate, asked him straight up if I kissed him too much to which he replied with a no way, and a kiss... I immediately took my chance right then and said "I like kissing you... It makes me feel mushy " to which he smiled and laughed. Ever since then he's been starting to open up more in that sense. (Not that I'm counting lol) but he's initiated a couple kisses. (And boy did that make my day! lol It's like winning the lottery when you get a shy guy to initiate!!!) It definitely seems like something that would help me tremendously, I just have to wait for the right moments to tell him these things. (And in some cases, I myself have to feel "gutsy" to say these things because I myself am a little shy... confident, but a bit shy...) Thanks.

 

[¯\(º_o)/¯]

I guess basically my question to you is how do you want to be treated by the girl you like/love...?

honestly this is pretty close to the hardest question i have ever been asked. the biggest thing with me, is i feel like she gave up on me, didnt want to deal with the way i am, because i didnt show her as much affection as i should have/wanted. i dont think she had any idea how much i went out of my comfort zone trying to work up to it, but i just took way to long, she didnt wanna wait anymore i guess

she never was really open with me either, but i think its because i wasnt with her and she was afraid and didnt know if i liked her back, she told me a few affectionate things, but only when she was drunk, and never committed to it 100%

what i would have like is somebody that would tollerate me as me and help me work threw things and force me threw the things that scared me
i believe she also suffered from some social anxiety also, so that very well could have contributed.

i think you are doing a wonderful job and im 100% jealous of your guy right now haha, best advice i say is just be there for him and slowly try and push him into little things to break him outta his shell, encourage him along the way

 

[XxJustMexX]

honestly this is pretty close to the hardest question i have ever been asked. the biggest thing with me, is i feel like she gave up on me, didnt want to deal with the way i am, because i didnt show her as much affection as i should have/wanted. i dont think she had any idea how much i went out of my comfort zone trying to work up to it, but i just took way to long, she didnt wanna wait anymore i guess

she never was really open with me either, but i think its because i wasnt with her and she was afraid and didnt know if i liked her back, she told me a few affectionate things, but only when she was drunk, and never committed to it 100%

what i would have like is somebody that would tollerate me as me and help me work threw things and force me threw the things that scared me
i believe she also suffered from some social anxiety also, so that very well could have contributed.

i think you are doing a wonderful job and im 100% jealous of your guy right now haha, best advice i say is just be there for him and slowly try and push him into little things to break him outta his shell, encourage him along the way

Curious... Did you guys know how you felt about each other? I know you said a few times when you guys were drunk you had each said something to the other... But was it ever a sure thing? (As in, did you ever do this sober, so did either one of you know how each other felt...?) I guess I'm kind of where you guys were... We've obviously gone a little past that point, but in a way, the same feelings are felt.

I too am a shy person, and I too have anxiety (Dx GAD) but I also have ADHD so a big part of what covers a lot of my shyness/anxiety is my hyperactivity... Even though I feel shy, nervous, anxious, etc... my hyperactivity pretty much squashes all that nervousness because I pretty much allow my lack of impulse control to take over which is what lets me blurt things out (it appears as courage, but honestly, I think I sometimes just allow myself to say things impulsively and deal with the consequences later...). If it wasn't for my incessant need to talk, then I'd probably be just as shy as him, and we definitely would not be where we are right now... But actually, to be honest, the only reason I've probably initiated things was because I was told by my friends that he liked me, so that gave me assurance of not getting rejected... Otherwise, I wouldn't have done anything either.

So how long did it take for her to give up if you don't mind me asking? I'm just curious as to how long it had taken you to try to come out of your comfort zone...? I keep hearing shy people say that it's taken them 6 or 7 months to start being more open and physically affectionate with their partner. I'm just pretty shocked that some people can take that long to be assured by someone. I mean, I kiss my guy as much as I can, I hug him all the time... I pretty much treat him like a full-time boyfriend. To be honest I'm not sure what we are... everyone sees us as a couple but he's never called me his girlfriend, nor have I ever called him my boyfriend. But we pretty much do everything together... We make decisions together, we cook together... plan things... the whole nine yards. There's just something missing... and I think it's affection and communication. I mean... he won't leave my side, we spend all our time together, but unless there's booze around all this time is spent in awkward silence... So I guess you can see where I'm concerned...

Sigh... We have the weekend alone together (roomies are away for the weekend) so maybe we can talk and maybe ease some of the worries in my mind a little.

Oh and another thing, you said that he pretty much needs to be pushed out of his comfort zone. I just want to make sure... this won't bother him? I'm just kind of afraid of doing "too much" which can lead to annoying or irritating him. It's just hard sometimes to differentiate between annoyed or shy, especially with him because he's always happy and smiling so I never really see him upset. (Meaning if I did upset him, I wouldn't know since he doesn't show it...)

 

[¯\(º_o)/¯]

First thing, you should try talking to.him about his shyness, see how he feels about it. Does it bother him that he's not talkative? If he's bothered by it, he will understand if you push him into more social situations, he may be frustrated but in the end he will know its for the best. I wouldn't try to push too hard at first, try it and judge how he reacts, if its possitive push harder, if its negative then push less.
If he's not bothered by his shyness and doesn't wanna change it, he will get upset if you try and change him

We never verbally said our feelings while sober. I never did when I was drunk either, I was still conscious enough to not wanna mess things up(ironic I know) but she one said they she wanted to tell me she loved me, but she didn't know if it was true. I would hold her hand or wrap my arms around her almost any chance I got, would kiss her(a lot) before I would leave her. She also would initiate holding hands and kissing. But never anything verbally. Found out threw friends after the fact that she told them she liked me alot.

When she was drunk she always asked my why I hadn't asked her out yet, I could answer her with a good answer, she would do a few things while sober that made me feel like she only wanted me when she was drunk. She used to talk about joining the military or moving outta state with relatives. So I always felt she didn't want a relationship when she was sober. I never asked her out when we was drunk, because I didn't want her to think I only asked cuz I was drunk so I would wait till we was sober, but then that's when she made me feel like she didn't want to be in a relationshiprelationship

We first started talking regularly in february, we've known each other since the summer before,and we stated hanging out march aprilish and got close shortly after.
I started to go out if my comfort zone after a week or two, but still stayed planted part way in the comfort zone, slowly trying to work out of it
Id say she gave up on me after 4-5 months

 

[XxJustMexX]

First of all, I'm sorry about what happened with you. I also want to thank you for sharing your story here with me as it really does help me. I know it probably isn't easy for you to write about it... For that I thank you...

I also have to add, my apologies but this post turned out quite longer than I expected...

You just said something very helpful right now that makes me want to change something I've been doing actually... It has to do with how you said she would say things sober that made you think she was only in it when she was drunk...

Before we started dating, he, I and some friends were having a conversation about life and the question of where do you see yourself 5 years from now came up, if they'd be married, where they'd live, etc... He (drunkly) answered that he stopped believing in love because it never lasts, (he also doesn't believe in marriage because of that) and also that he will probably be single. I had a feeling the point he was trying to make is that he's been hurt in the past and he doesn't want to get hurt anymore (I'm sure he wanted me to hear that comment... Sadly enough it might have been a pity play...).

Well ever since then, I've kind of had a little animosity towards him because of that comment (in a way, my thoughts were hell, if you plan to be single in 5 years, why should I put you in my plans?) so after that day I've made a couple of comments during conversation with others about what my dreams and plans were, and I deliberately said "I" instead of "us/we". (Like mentioning how I'm planning to buy a house in a certain city...) I wasn't really trying to hurt him, but because I don't know where we stand, I couldn't say "us or we". You know? Are these the types of things you're talking about? I definitely need to stop doing that then. It's just that I'm a pretty ambitious person, so I do talk a lot with friends about my plans for the future, goals, etc... And I can't say "we" because of the obvious doubts he's got me having... I do purposely try to throw the us/we words out there nonchalantly when I can though. When I say these things, I do deep inside want him to be a part of it, and would hope that he would want to be a part of it. But after what you said, I'm beginning to think that instead of looking at it like that, he's probably thinking that I'm planning a future without him. Uh oh... It's probably too late, but I'm sure how I feel is what your ex felt... She said these things with thoughts of you being part of it, but you took it the wrong way...

Is this kind of the type of stuff your ex would say? I have a feeling our situations are very similar. Because of my doubts for what he feels, I think I may have said a few things to deter him from moving forward as well. I do counter it with probably 20x more positive assurances so I'm hoping it didn't deter him that bad. He has made a few small steps and has said a few things that tells me he sees me in his future... He plans to take me to his favorite national park (we're both nature geeks), plans to show me how to shoot (he's a gun fanatic lol)... The other day when I jokingly told someone I want a million dollars, he shyly says "I'm working on it..." and smiled at me. That single sentence right there brought me a lot closer to him that he can ever imagine, because it showed me that he sees me with him in the future and that he wants to make me happy. The reason it made me so happy to hear that is because like I said, he shows me he cares a lot by what he does, rarely with words, so when he actually SAYS these things, I'm really surprised and get pretty giddy inside... Actually now that I think about it, that's probably the first and only time he's made a comment directly to me that tells me that there IS a "we"... Well, actually, last night I was telling my roommate to ask her boyfriend to get some beer at the store and she says why don't you ask your boyfriend he's right there! Before I could say anything, he answers her, meaning he was aware of what she said, and if he didn't reply negatively, he must be ok with what she said right?

Anyway... as for talking to him about his shyness, I honestly don't think I can bring myself to do it that directly. I've joked around and said "quit being so shy!" or "why are you so quiet... go have a beer!" and he's replied saying things like, I'm just a quiet person... or... I don't have anything to say... I've done it a few times and I really don't want to overdo it. I also don't want to make it seem like it's a problem by bringing it up because I think it will just make him more self conscious...

God I'm sorry for such a long post. I guess us women do overanalyze everything. (Or at least I do... and to add, I used to be a blogger so I do know how to ramble quite a bit...)

 

[¯\(º_o)/¯]

You said his comment about being alone, was before you was together. Sounds to me at the time he didn't think you two was gonna be together and didn't consider you a playing part in his life, at the time. If he shows he cares, he really does. Iv always tried to show people how I feel, because I have a hard time telling people. Most people don't pay attention to the actions of others, only their own so a lot of people miss them, luckly for him he, you do notice

Things she would say are, she hated being in this place, nothing here for here. Wanted to join the military, or she was gonna move to another state to live with her uncle so she could get a job. Couple time wile drunk she would complain she didn't have anything good or worth while in life

I took it as I wasn't anything good, nor was I anybody that made it worth being around and that she didn't wanna stay where I was

As far as your commets about moving up in life, they sound open ended to me, like that something you would like,not nessisarly a plan to abandon him, but I can see it possibly be miss understood that way, try asking him his oppinion on what you want and see how he acts, it might be hard but maybe tell him that you'd like him apart of that.

Also do you have a problem with asking him out? That's one thing I always wondered with her, why she would never ask me. But I think she was afraid id say no.
Alot of people think a guy should ask, but I know tons of girls who asked the guy and been just fine lol

And if you on her about his shyness, so it is a problem and needs to be treated as one. It needs to be taken care of, not ignored. Try to talk to him but yes don't constantly push it, eventually he should open up.
communication is one of the bigger factor in a lasting relationship, along with fighting, its gotta happen, I hate fights so I try to avoid them, but things need to get heated sometimes and problems worked threw

Also don't worry about how much you post, put as much out as your capble of, the more info the better, I just hope I can actually help, im not the best at these kinds of things lol

 

[XxJustMexX]

First of all, I want to dive into what you said about your girl and what she would say... I have a feeling that she was probably a little insecure as well and was saying those things to kind of test you to see if you would say something to her and protest. She probably just wanted to hear you say something along the lines of her staying here, or don't go, or something to that effect. I'd hate to admit, but there's times when I had a down day and I just needed to feel better and was looking for something like that said to me as well... She was probably looking for sympathy, affection or some sort of hint from you that you cared... that's probably why she said those things. If she's told people she liked you, I can only assume these are the reasons she said those things...

And ahhh... yes, actions vs. words. I've learned this from my past few relationships (and the book "The 5 Love Languages" by Gary Coleman!! lol) and am glad that I've learned this before I hit 30 as this will make the rest of my life a whole lot easier! I often have to tell myself this with him EVERY single day! Take this for example:

Saturday, I for some reason woke up with a helluva lotta energy... I ended up trying to burn it off at the gym (that didn't work!) so I came home and said let's go hiking, and I can tell he wanted to go, but wasn't in the mood right then because he said "Eeeeehhhhh, let's go tomorrow". I said we couldn't go tomorrow because I had to go to my nephew's birthday party. Since I could tell he didn't wanna go, I jokingly told him "You know, it's ok for you to say NO you know, if you don't wanna go, just say NO, I don't wanna go! lol" (I said that jokingly because he's always doing what I ask of him, I just wanted him to know it's ok if he says no...) So he laughs and says "OK, then no, I don't wanna go." A few minutes later I was still feeling antsy and asked if he was sure he didn't wanna get out of the house (he hadn't done much or gotten out the last couple of weeks) and he said let's go hiking. I told him I thought he didn't wanna go and he said it's ok, let's go! So, there's the actions that I'm talking about... He does everything I want to do. I knew he didn't really feel like going at that moment, and he did anyway.

So, here's the but... he ends up taking me to his favorite hiking place and the whole time we're there he's walking ahead of me and looking all nervous to be with me. He's showing me all his favorite trails and all, (he used to be a boy scout leader so he's totally into nature like me... so I figured if we were in his element he'd open up more...) but he's also looking like he's always in a hurry to get somewhere when he's with me. I ended up taking him by the hand and asking, why do you always look like you're in a hurry to go somewhere... stop... breathe, and smell the roses! He jokes and says you said you wanted to go hiking, that's what you do when you're hiking! I explained to him that my favorite part of hiking is looking at the animals, plants, etc... and exploring! lol.

So ya, point is, he goes because he knows I want to go so he goes to make me happy, but when we get there, he pretty much avoids me the whole time and looks like he's trying to run away from me! lol. I mean most of the time I can laugh about it, but I have to reaaaaally be in a good mood, and feeling very self assured and confident at that time. If I'm in a low mood myself, I don't take these things so well... ya know?

I ended up telling him I had a great time with him to which he replies that he did too. But in my head I'm thinking, great time? Really? You ran away from me the whole time lol. I mean yes, we did have an awesome time. But I guess I just expect a guy to help me down rocks, be more of the "take the lead" and help a damsel in distress kind of deal. But nope. I guess we've kind of established some sort of "I'm the boss" deal with him... I mean he does everything I ask of him, but I'd like HIM to take initiative sometimes! I don't want to have to tell him what to do all the time! lol. I think I've been too intimidating. I'm a pretty confident/successful woman so I think I do scare him a little bit from initiatine anything unless he hears the words come out of my mouth... But on the other hand he does everything I ask, but I have to ask!

So ya. I have to force myself to believe in his actions instead of words cuz if I waited for words, I'd be waiting forever... For instance, he doesn't like his hair or having any hair on his face... Weeks ago he said he was gonna shave everything off because it was bothering him. I made a comment saying awww, no don't, I love your hair and I think you look hot scruffy... I then said I wanted to see what he looked like with just a stache/tee since he's always fully shaved and I rarely see hair on his face... I come home later in the day and lo and behold, he has a stache and goatee! And still to this day (that was a couple weeks ago) he only shaves around it and keeps it and he still hasn't cut his hair. Small deal isn't it? But to me, it's a big deal because I know he's only doing it to make me happy. Those are the little things that count to me! To other people, they'd totally miss these things, but to me, these are the things that count.

As for the asking out thing. Well, we're kind of in an awkward situation. Before we started dating, he was renting out a room at our friend's house (my roomie's parents). A month ago my roomies and I were going camping and I asked him to come. At the time he was working for my roomie's brother (also the son of the people he lived with) and he had a chance to work OT that Saturday. Well he called up the brother and asked if it was ok he skip the OT this weekend since it's obviously not mandatory. The guy kind of had an attitude about it (basically said whatever dude, choose fun over extra money). But since the guy is his friend he didn't think it was that big of a deal and went with us. To make a long story short, when we get back, that brother spoke to his parents and they all decided that it was a stupid thing for him to do and he got kicked out of their house, and our friend's brother basically won't call him back about his job. So that weekend caused a whole mess of crap. So of course, I offered for him to stay at my place since he had nowhere to go. He's now "living" with me, but not in the same room.

So ya, before we even started dating, he was already living with me. This has kind of "sped up" our relationship I guess you could say. Before we actually hooked up, our friend's daughter used to tease us and try to hook us up saying things like "I know you like her, just ask her out already!" and he once replied with "I don't have a job right now, she won't be interested..." So I know his ego has a lot to do with his lack of self confidence with our relationship too...

Arrrrgggg, I keep going off the point lol. Point being, we went from not even dating, to living together in less than a month. So basically, I don't have to ask him out lol. That's what makes this whole thing awkward. We've kind of skipped a lot of the formality, so that's probably where a lot of the confusion comes from on both our ends. If I wanna go somewhere, he's there and I'm just like, hey, let's go to [wherever]! Technically, I initiated our first "outing" together the week before the camping trip, then I initiated the camping trip as well. That camping trip then caused a whoooole lot of issues which now brings us here... living together and well, dating.

As for communication. My goodness, it's like pulling teeth. Friday night, I even tried to play 21 questions with him to get him to talk more, and as drunk as he was... nope, didn't work lol. Apparently he has no fears, no best moments of his life, and too many movies to name as a favorite! (Arrrrrggghhhh!!! lol) Open ended questions end up closed for some God forsaken reason, and he always finds a way out of conversations. lmao... Crap this is a lot of work lol.

I know a month isn't a long time so I'm patiently waiting... and to be honest, he has been inching (slowly but surely) closer out of his comfort zone... Like you said, I've sometimes had to force it. Matter of fact when we got back from hiking since we'd taken some nice pics I wanted to put the one of us together as my profile pic on FB and also change his pic to a nice pic I took of him... I just basically took initiative, told him to log onto FB and was changing his pic and all of a sudden I just blurted out "oh and you're about to be in a relationship with [my name]!" and he says "you can do anything you want, go for it"... So I guess as long as I say what's on my mind, we're ok. I just have to take that advice of how men aren't mindreaders, so we girls should just be straight up! No more hints... I'm just saying it all!!! lol.

 

[HH]

wow, there's a lot here to take in I've mainly skimmed read it but I can say that your boyfriend is very lucky to have you as it seems that you fully understand his situation and are willing to compromise. I think every shy guy here would love to have you as their girlfriend.

Speaking from personal experience being shy and having poor communication skills makes showing the person you like (or even love) extremely difficult and most of the time damn near impossible. Take me for example, there's someone I've liked for years but showing her that I like her is like trying to muster up the courage to do a bungee jump or something. Being shy is like having a invisible wall around you which just physically stops you from doing what you want to do and saying what you want to say. This push and pull example is very common I think with us shy guys (I suffer from it myself).

You're just going to have to give this guy time and some space and hopefully once he gets comfortable around you then all of the effort will be worth it.

 

[we_r_eternal]

im the exact same way with girls as this guy is. we are in similiar situations. i have an employment issue currently which horribly affects the male ego. plus an opiate addiction in which i'll only be social with anybody only if ive gotten my fix . if i havent got the pills, or enough of them in me at least, you wont be seeing me at all.

 

[XxJustMexX]

Hi HH and thanks for your reply. Years huh? Wow. I can't fathom how you can hold it in for so long! I mean, I know you fear rejection, but wouldn't a few weeks of heartache be better than years of it? And that's only IF she doesn't feel the same way. But imagine if she did?? I think that's what most shy guys should focus on... The "what if she likes me too" factor. I think thinking and assuming it will end negatively is what keeps you guys from taking that leap... but I wish you all could just realize that there's a possibility that she likes you too, and it can be the start of something great... I wish you the best of luck, and hopefully you will let her know how you feel one day!

And thank you for your kind words. I've had enough bad relationships to realize the error of many relationships and I try not to repeat those same errors... I've definitely learned the difference between men and women and it really helps to be fully understanding of the differences between them when it comes to love.

This is exactly how I've come this far with my guy. If I would have kept thinking how I used to think, then I definitely wouldn't be the happy giddy girl in love that I am now... I'd be the miserable, angry girlfriend that most girls would be due to frustrations looking for the things that most girls would think are missing from relationships!

Take this for example... This just happened a half hour ago so this is perfect example! lol. A few hours ago I asked my guy to go to the grocery store and he said he would just after he wakes up from a nap since he was exhausted from errands this morning. Well, I came home for lunch and found he was still asleep so I let him be until I was leaving again and I went to go say bye to him... Well I went over and whispered to him (just in case he was awake... since he half sleeps a lot lol) that I was leaving right. Well thanks to the advice of ¯\(º_o)/¯ (cute screenname by the way! lol) and a couple other people, since I've been following the "guide him to what you want" advice, he pulled me onto the couch with him, wrapped his arms around me and cuddled with me for a minute! And he initiated it! hehe. I'm sorry, things like that get me excited since he so cutely has been refraining from doing stuff like that... I'm opening him up. Yaaaay! lol. --- Ahem, back to what I was saying...... Soooooo, as we laid there, I wanted to let him know how happy I am to have him in my life... so I did just that and said I just want you to know how happy I am to have you in my life. His response? - What do you want me to get for you at the grocery store?

OK, now a normal person (and me, years ago) would interpret that as ok, wtf, what kind of response was that? But knowing what I know about men now (especially shy guys), I didn't expect him to respond in words... As a matter of fact, I didn't really expect a response, I truly said it to let him know how I felt. But he responded the best way he knew how to, which was to do something for me... something he knew I wanted him to do. That to me probably spoke louder than words. The reason I'm falling hard for him is because my days are filled with things like this. He cleans the house, does the dishes, cooks dinner (he even makes my plate for me!), goes to the store when we need things, he does all I ask of him, happily... he goes where ever he needs to go to get the things we need around the house... These things may not matter to most people, but since I'm an acts of service gal (The 5 Love Languages book, read it!! lol) these things are important to me.

So, no matter how little he speaks to me, how shy he gets, how flustered he gets around me and how nervous he always seems, these small things assure me that he cares about me... he's just showing it in his own way. The great thing is that aside from the ways he knows to show me his love, he's slowly but surely starting to do the things the girly way too! He's starting to show more affection... touches me more without being so nervous (my first thread in this forum complained of him never touching me... ever... like, I literally scared him lol), he kisses me a lot more, and comfortably I might add... he hugs me a lot more, etc... My patience is definitely paying off, and it's definitely due to the advice I'm receiving online! Thanks everyone!

 

[XxJustMexX]

OK, I have to add to the previous post. Not only did he go get what we needed from the grocery store, but he also came home with a haircut. But not the shave he's been badly wanting for a month, the haircut that I wanted him to have! I came home and he's got his hair spiked up just like I told him I liked it. When we first met he refused to have facial hair and kept his hair really short. Shortly after it started growing I told him how I loved his hair and wish he'd let it grow a little, and how handsome I thought he would look with a goatee and 'stache. Well, today when I walked in the door and saw him, I saw someone who values my opinion and cares about what I have to say. He knows he doesn't have to do it... he can do as he pleases, but the fact that he wants to see a smile on my face really beats any words he can say to me... I think I just fell in love today... (Well, even more than before!)

 

[¯\(º_o)/¯]

WOW! your last two posts actually brought a tear to my eye. i love hearing things like this. im rooting for both of you, and again im beyond jealous of your guy, there is not much i wouldnt do for a girl thats care about me half as much as you do your guy. i think you are doing an amazing job putting up with his issues, something that most people wont do, your a very special person, and im pretty sure your guy knows it. him doing the things he does for you, it seem like he is trying very hard to show you what you mean to him, and your picking it up very well.

you defiantly on the right track, and its nice to see progress is being made, gives me hope

another thing, you said you stay in separate rooms, have you ever spent the night together? that was always my favorite thing, falling asleep with her in my arms. it maybe something that can bring you two that much closer together, if its not something you already do.

and with my girl, when she would tell me she wanted to leave i would always tell her i would miss her, but i wouldnt never try and stop her from doing anything she wanted to do, i was always supportive of her plans.

 

[Zav]

How long have you guys been dating? Maybe it will just take some time for him to feel comfortable opening up more. Has there been progress since day one?

And yeah, I don't think it's something that can healthfully last if good times always have to be induced by alcohol.

 

[XxJustMexX]

WOW! your last two posts actually brought a tear to my eye. i love hearing things like this. im rooting for both of you, and again im beyond jealous of your guy, there is not much i wouldnt do for a girl thats care about me half as much as you do your guy. i think you are doing an amazing job putting up with his issues, something that most people wont do, your a very special person, and im pretty sure your guy knows it. him doing the things he does for you, it seem like he is trying very hard to show you what you mean to him, and your picking it up very well.

you defiantly on the right track, and its nice to see progress is being made, gives me hope

another thing, you said you stay in separate rooms, have you ever spent the night together? that was always my favorite thing, falling asleep with her in my arms. it maybe something that can bring you two that much closer together, if its not something you already do.

and with my girl, when she would tell me she wanted to leave i would always tell her i would miss her, but i wouldnt never try and stop her from doing anything she wanted to do, i was always supportive of her plans.

Thank you. Most people think I'm too nice (a pushover you can say...) but I just try to understand people and their situations. I have a philosophy that each person has had their own situations in life that brought them to today and I like to try to understand them as much as I can. I know my shy guy has been hurt a lot. He was an unwanted child, wasn't shown affection by his parents, etc... and I still think he grew up to be a beautiful person inside and out. I'm just amazed how largely peoples' pasts influence who they become and how they think. Take for instance, (not just saying this because he's my bf...) my guy is an absolute hottie. I'm not gonna lie, he's at least a couple points above me on the league scale. lol. My friends are all jealous and comments how absolutely gorgeous he is... Let's just say if any woman looked at him, she'd want him... Well, the other day, I told him how cute he was, and he got flustered, and said "no, I'm not..." I mean, WTF? What in hell could have happened in his life to give him THAT low of self-esteem? I feel lucky to have him, like I said, he's a beautiful person in and out. But HE doesn't think so. I think that's a horrible way to feel about yourself! Most women would probably be turned off by the insecurity, but I believe insecurity can be turned around to security, with a little love and assurance! I think everyone deserves to be happy... they just need to be given a chance. I think the reason I'm willing to help others is because I myself am already happy and feel like I have everything I need/want in life... I just need someone to share it with...

The room thing... One thing I hadn't mentioned is that I have 2 kids from my previous marriage, so we only get to spend maybe a day a week alone when my kids go to see their grandparents. I think this helps A LOT with slowing down our relationship since we jumped into the whole living together thing so quick. But yes, we have spent nights together, and yes, it definitely helps bring us closer.

One thing that I really appreciate about him (well, just most of the time, sometimes it can be frustrating! lol) is the fact that he isn't such a sex fiend... To be honest I'm just getting used to it, as most men I've dated (well, not just the ones I've dated, but most men lol) will jump at any chance to jump in the sack... He's pretty respectful and before we actually had sex, he had plenty of chances to take advantage and never did. We even slept on the same bed when we went camping before we dated, (absolutely wasted to add!!) and he not once tried anything... See why I'm falling for this guy...?

Your last sentence... that's a perfect example right there of miscommunication between a male and female... The female was hinting, the man missed it. The man then supported, then the woman missed it! I think things like that could be avoided if women would just stop hinting, and just say things straight out, and also learn to read men and how they work... I think that was the main reason why most of my past long term relationships ended... I didn't know these things then. If I did, then maybe they would have been a little more peaceful and probably would have lasted longer. (Longer doesn't mean forever though, they probably would have still ended due to their issues... but at least it would have been right on my end...) Unfortunately, in your situation, I'm not sure there was much you could have done without putting yourself out there too much. It really does suck that us women always feel the need to be validated... Sucks, but happens all the time. The only thing you men can do is be there for her, and how she takes it and reacts is up to her...

I'm just glad I learned all this before I met my guy. It definitely helps that we live with our other two roommates (a couple) because watching them fight over little things reminds me everyday of what NOT to do! lol.

 

[XxJustMexX]

How long have you guys been dating? Maybe it will just take some time for him to feel comfortable opening up more. Has there been progress since day one?

And yeah, I don't think it's something that can healthfully last if good times always have to be induced by alcohol.

We've been dating a month... Not long, I know. I guess it just feels like forever because we've lived together since before then so we spend a lot of time together... And yes, time is definitely going to have to be my friend right now as I know that's really the only thing that will help.

And yes, there has definitely been progress since day one. Definitely. I think there's actually been enough progress to where I can come here daily and report a new addition to the progress! lol. I know... only a month, so I probably sound impatient... But I have learned something... I've come to realize that because of the slowness of how he's opening up, it makes those times he DOES come out of his comfort zone a million times better! Last night, he came up to me when I was in the kitchen and he put his arm around me... That would have NEVER happened two weeks ago... lol.

I think he's starting to get the hint about the alcohol. I think he's gotten out of his comfort zone enough too, to where he's starting to realize he doesn't need the alcohol to open up to me anymore. He's starting to be a lot more receptive and open without a drink now. In the last week or so, we've spent plenty of time together without drinking. It's actually a sigh of relief for me because it gave me assurance that he basically doesn't only like me when we're drunk. I know, that was my own insecurities, but hell, it did feel like it sometimes! Last night he stopped at something like 3 or 4 beers even when our friends were over getting hammered... So ya, the alcohol is slowly leaving the picture...