Venting, dopamine and psychotherapy addiction

[Pacific_Loner]

Sooo... I'm not sure this is going to interest anyone, but I've been wondering (and doing some research) about why people who talks a lot about their problems sometimes just can't seem to stop, and is it really such a good idea to do so. I know most people say that it makes them feel better. But from what I've observed of the people around me who goes to therapy, it does not seem to help that much. They say they feel better afterwards because they just spent an hour vomiting all their problems on the therapist. Then they can't wait for the next session to vomit again.

In the meantime, things are not getting fixed and nothing very concrete is done, and they keep talking about themselves and their problems between the 2 sessions.

According to my (very basic - I'm not a scientist) research, venting and talking about oneself generates dopamine in the brain (probably not a big surprise for anyone who has a basic knowledge of the brain). Also, it appears that when your body get used to producing dopamine by venting, it kind of forgets the other ways that it can produce dopamine, which explains why some people gets addicted to therapy or can't stop talking about themselves and their problems.

So I sometimes wonder if we (or the therapist and psychologist) focus a bit too much on "talking about our problems" and digging up the past, when in fact we should allow ourselves to bury the past and focus on the present. Sometimes there is just nothing more to be learned from bad memories, and there is just no use, in my opinion, in spending so much energy whining about things when they cannot be changed and/or are out of one's control, or when the discussion is not meant to lead to some kind of solution.

Anyway, I'm curious to have anyone's opinion, in particular people who are or have been in therapy, or needs to vent a lot.

By the way, please don't think I'm trying to b*tch on people who comes here and vent, I do know it's sometimes helpful to throw it out there and have people telling you they understand.

 

[S_Spartan]

Yes, I could agree with this and would add that most people in the developed world are dopamine addicts of one kind or another.

 

[vj288]

...................

 

[slimjim119]

Sooo... I'm not sure this is going to interest anyone, but I've been wondering (and doing some research) about why people who talks a lot about their problems sometimes just can't seem to stop, and is it really such a good idea to do so. I know most people say that it makes them feel better. But from what I've observed of the people around me who goes to therapy, it does not seem to help that much. They say they feel better afterwards because they just spent an hour vomiting all their problems on the therapist. Then they can't wait for the next session to vomit again.

In the meantime, things are not getting fixed and nothing very concrete is done, and they keep talking about themselves and their problems between the 2 sessions.

According to my (very basic - I'm not a scientist) research, venting and talking about oneself generates dopamine in the brain (probably not a big surprise for anyone who has a basic knowledge of the brain). Also, it appears that when your body get used to producing dopamine by venting, it kind of forgets the other ways that it can produce dopamine, which explains why some people gets addicted to therapy or can't stop talking about themselves and their problems.

So I sometimes wonder if we (or the therapist and psychologist) focus a bit too much on "talking about our problems" and digging up the past, when in fact we should allow ourselves to bury the past and focus on the present. Sometimes there is just nothing more to be learned from bad memories, and there is just no use, in my opinion, in spending so much energy whining about things when they cannot be changed and/or are out of one's control, or when the discussion is not meant to lead to some kind of solution.

Anyway, I'm curious to have anyone's opinion, in particular people who are or have been in therapy, or needs to vent a lot.

By the way, please don't think I'm trying to b*tch on people who comes here and vent, I do know it's sometimes helpful to throw it out there and have people telling you they understand.

Venting does make you feel better to a certain extent. People want to have a sympathetic ear. Sometimes a therapist is the only one who will give you that. It felt better in the short run. But I would leave the office more depressed in the long run.

I wish when I had gone they would of focused more on the therapies available then me spilling my guts. Of course exposure therapy was the main focus. I felt like I was doing most of the talking with less solutions. And medication was thrown in the mix to.

 

[lucifersam]

Yes, I could agree with this and would add that most people in the developed world are dopamine addicts of one kind or another.

Why just the developed world?

 

[S_Spartan]

Why just the developed world?

Because I would think that people in undeveloped areas would put more emphasis on survival and collectivist thinking rather than seeking temporary highs, though I am just guessing on that.

 

[theslowesthand]

In my therapy days I was big on the "name-it-to-claim-it" thing, which i went to extremes with, in therapy sessions. I think it made me feel at least partly in-control of my problems. Perhaps talking about problems is a way of "acknowledging" the problems? (ie the first step is always accepting that the problem exists; trouble with me is that i seldom got past this 1st-base with my my issues)

 

[Nanita]

Often, therapy doesn't do enough for people. Just talking about problems isn't exactly what I consider to be useful therapy.
A lot of therapists aren't good enough, or rather, they aren't a correct match with certain patients.
I myself have been in therapy that wasn't working for me. But I think chemistry between patient and therapist is very important. Also, different people benefit from different types of therapies.

I've gained a lot from the therapy I'm currently in. My therapist is really good for me.

We have spoken a lot about my childhood, the family environment I grew up in, my parents and their dysfunctional ways of living. This has helped me understand myself better. It's healthy for me to understand how my mental problems began.
When I was younger, I didn't fully understand why I felt anxiety, depression, low self esteem, and why my friendships don't last, why I no longer have stable connections to people, why I sometimes act arrogant towards people, but really feel insecure. Why I push people away. Why I escape into my own imagination and daydreams.
Yes I understood some of it, but not 100%.
It's really helpful for me to get all these realizations, with the help from my therapist.

When I started seeing my current therapist, I liked her, but I didn't feel very relaxed or comfortable when I was with her, because of nervousness/social phobia. I enjoyed talking to her, but I constantly felt nervous. Over time, I've gotten more comfortable around her, and that is important, because now I'm able to fully benefit from what she can offer me. It took me probably about a year, before I was fully comfortable with her. I've been seeing her for 2½ years now. It's not that I wasn't benefitting from seeing her for the first year. I was. But reaching deeper realizations and feeling myself change, didn't start happening untill later.

What is actually really important about seeing her, is that we are using our relation as a place where I get to practice what it's like to have real sharing and communication with a person. Someone that I can't push away, because I'll see her next week again, even if I start pushing her away emotionally. And she doesn't leave me if I act less than nice. It's like a "fake friendship" that doesn't get ruined by my dysfunctional behaviour, because she's proffessional and sees my twisted ways of not sensing my own emotions, or my survival mechanisms that make me push her away from time to time. She keeps me aware of what is going on inside me, and between her and I.


I know that having this "relationship" with her where I feel trust, (and where I'm able to communicate without all the usual unhealthy patterns that can occur in my communication with people) this helps me learn how to connect to people in general. The quality of our communication and the trust between us, translates into how I meet people and bond with people, even outside of therapy.

I understand the whole risk of becoming addicted to therapy or to the therapist and what they offer. But I think it's worth it. I'd rather benefit from seeing a therapist and then feel like I miss it after it ends... than never having experienced good therapy.

 

[Nanita]

In my therapy days I was big on the "name-it-to-claim-it" thing, which i went to extremes with, in therapy sessions. I think it made me feel at least partly in-control of my problems. Perhaps talking about problems is a way of "acknowledging" the problems? (ie the first step is always accepting that the problem exists; trouble with me is that i seldom got past this 1st-base with my my issues)

I agree that aknowledging the problems is an important first step.
I've learned that acknowledging something, has been a first step of transforming a problem or negative pattern of mine, into ... non existing, almost.

 

[lucifersam]

Because I would think that people in undeveloped areas would put more emphasis on survival and collectivist thinking rather than seeking temporary highs, though I am just guessing on that.

Eating, sex, and social interaction don't release dopamine? I don't think its presence in the brain is vestigial or coincidental.

 

[S_Spartan]

Eating, sex, and social interaction don't release dopamine? I don't think its presence in the brain is vestigial or coincidental.

But there is a difference in doing those things in moderation versus being addicted to them. Many Americans don't do those three to survive, they do them to feel good.

 

[theslowesthand]

Eating, sex, and social interaction don't release dopamine? I don't think its presence in the brain is vestigial or coincidental

I get seem to get a dopamine/whatever "high" from some foods, a little from self-sex i guess ... but i've NEVER gotten any "high" from the third of these 3 natural dopamine sources - social interaction. At best its mild interest. But i probably have a permanent dopamane/etc deficiency in my brain (hence the ant-depressants & junk-food/alcohol binges).

 

[theslowesthand]

Often, therapy doesn't do enough for people

And often years therapy seems to do or change absolutely nothing at all (just speaking from my own experiences mainly!)

Just talking about problems isn't exactly what I consider to be useful therapy

It can be really useful & therapeutic on the day, but a few days later you're back to the same old problems (ie talking is like a temporary band-aid & gives you short-term hope/enthusiasm to battle your long-term demons)

When I was younger, I didn't fully understand why I felt anxiety, depression, low self esteem, and why my friendships don't last, why I no longer have stable connections to people, why I sometimes act arrogant towards people, but really feel insecure. Why I push people away. Why I escape into my own imagination and daydreams.
Yes I understood some of it, but not 100%.

What is actually really important about seeing her, is that we are using our relation as a place where I get to practice what it's like to have real sharing and communication with a person. Someone that I can't push away, because I'll see her next week again, even if I start pushing her away emotionally. And she doesn't leave me if I act less than nice. It's like a "fake friendship" that doesn't get ruined by my dysfunctional behaviour, because she's proffessional and sees my twisted ways of not sensing my own emotions, or my survival mechanisms that make me push her away from time to time. She keeps me aware of what is going on inside me, and between her and I

Yes, i also have that "push-people-away" thing, along with anxiety, depression, low self esteem,etc. It could well involve the survival mechanism (eg overactive amydala, of which typical anxiety sufferers have)

I know that having this "relationship" with her where I feel trust, (and where I'm able to communicate without all the usual unhealthy patterns that can occur in my communication with people) this helps me learn how to connect to people in general. The quality of our communication and the trust between us, translates into how I meet people and bond with people, even outside of therapy

I seem to set in my personality/ways to change my dysfunctional way with people. Or maybe i'd need to see a therapist for many years? Or group therapy??

 

[Nanita]

Yes, i also have that "push-people-away" thing, along with anxiety, depression, low self esteem,etc. It could well involve the survival mechanism (eg overactive amydala, of which typical anxiety sufferers have)


I seem to set in my personality/ways to change my dysfunctional way with people. Or maybe i'd need to see a therapist for many years? Or group therapy??

I've seen a number of therapists for the past 13 years, and only the one I'm currently seeing has made a difference for me.

For the first whole year, I was pretty awkward and nervous around her, and I told her so, because I want to talk about everything that goes on in me, so I would tell her "right now I feel nervous and I don't know what to say and I can barely look you in the eyes". And she would ask questions so we could figure out why/how I got so nervous. And now I never feel awkward around her, it's like we broke the spell, I found out what happens in me, when I get nervous and awkward around people.

I've had other realizations like that, in my therapy with her.. I think those realizations and little steps, bring greater and greater clarity, understanding of self, more comfort in my own skin, and an ability to sense what goes on inside me.

I'm sorry if I'm not very good at explaining myself right now, or if I'm over complicating my points here... I think I'm just not very used to express what it is that I'm getting out of therapy.

I think group therapy can be really good. I was in a group and it was okay-ish but not great. But what I did find helpful about it, was the routine of being with the same people every week, and feeling myself and everyone becoming more comfortable around each other. But it only lasted for 4 months. I think being in the same group for much longer, would be necessary for it to really help.

I'm still trying to find out how and why my life became so lonely.
I do push people away, but it's not just that. It's a basic inability to socialize and create stable, close relationships/bonds/friendships. I really want to understand why I can't...

There are obvious answers that I already know, like: my father was/is an alcoholic who let me down so many times, and my mother didn't help me in many horrible sitiuations where she should have taken care of me, and I was abused at a daycare place/kindergarten, and my mom found out but she didn't save me.. and so on..

So it's pretty obvious that someone who didn't learn healthy ways of bonding with people as a child, isn't magically going to become an adult who is awesome at having a social life.

But I need to understand more about all this and understand how to change this negative pattern. If I ever can.

 

[Pacific_Loner]

So I think being in touch with yourself, and aware of your issues is important, and a therapist is someone who can help with that for sure, but with no intention of doing anything about these things, it's all for naught.

And from what I saw, it appears that most of the time, the therapist isn't very action-oriented.

It felt better in the short run. But I would leave the office more depressed in the long run.

I wish when I had gone they would of focused more on the therapies available then me spilling my guts. Of course exposure therapy was the main focus. I felt like I was doing most of the talking with less solutions. And medication was thrown in the mix to.

My point exactly, of course you feel good on the short term, but on the long run you just feel more like crap. So you need to do it again. Like drugs.

But I need to understand more about all this and understand how to change this negative pattern. If I ever can.

Thanks for your input Nanita, I agree that understanding why we turned out like this is a very important step, and if the therapist can help do that, it can only be positive.

Once you realize that your behaviours are related to X or Y event of your childhood, I think it's easier to heal, because you realize that there is a why to your brain problems, and that the anxiety, low self-esteem, etc., have an origin and can be undone., or rebuilt. But it seems like the therapists don't want to be involved in the healing and rebuilding part, or most of them anyway. I'm glad to hear yours work well for you though Nanita. They can't all be bad ones obviously

 

[Bronson99]

I get seem to get a dopamine/whatever "high" from some foods, a little from self-sex i guess ... but i've NEVER gotten any "high" from the third of these 3 natural dopamine sources - social interaction. At best its mild interest. But i probably have a permanent dopamane/etc deficiency in my brain (hence the ant-depressants & junk-food/alcohol binges).

That's ADD for you. I'm afflicted by the same beast.

 

[theslowesthand]

I'm still trying to find out how and why my life became so lonely.
I do push people away, but it's not just that. It's a basic inability to socialize and create stable, close relationships/bonds/friendships. I really want to understand why I can't...

There are obvious answers that I already know, like: my father was/is an alcoholic who let me down so many times, and my mother didn't help me in many horrible sitiuations where she should have taken care of me, and I was abused at a daycare place/kindergarten, and my mom found out but she didn't save me.. and so on..

So it's pretty obvious that someone who didn't learn healthy ways of bonding with people as a child, isn't magically going to become an adult who is awesome at having a social life.

But I need to understand more about all this and understand how to change this negative pattern. If I ever can

The way i see it, there's really just nature and nurture.

Nature is from your genetics that were passed down, any mutations, as well as all the normal human traits. I've got a bit of aspergers, which i have had as early as i can remember, which is i believe nature - i got it from my genetics (but i could be wrong .. i could have possibly developed it very early on). Also i was absolutely terrified of some things, eg starting going to kindergarten (was very distressing when mum left me there on first day esp); or when my brother started primary school. I had a huge fear of being left alone, being with strangers, being away from home, etc (which in hindsight seems to be involved with an over-active amygdala, as the anxiety was extreme). Also often had nightmares where i waking up screaming/shouting. So i definately had some big-time troubles as a toddler & kid especially.

Nurture is one's life experiences, environments, diet, habits developed, lifestyle, etc. I read somewhere that during the first 2-3 years of a persons life, certain traits/things are "set down in stone", and for the rest of your life you are "stuck" with them. I can recall the odd "intense" thing that happened to me when i was 2yrs old .. and you had some abuse very early on also. So such things i fear theres not too much that can be done to repair that damage, as it became "hard-wired" in our brains, specifically the in "emotional memory" circuits. :sad: