What about GOD, Can he help?

Doomed2Die

Well-known member
scruffpot said:
hold hands and dance (paganistic rituals?).

That was a figure of speech and you know it.

scruffpot said:
and that we do not believe in the way that you do or other religios people... Unfortunatly you are only seeing it from your veiw

Uh huh, how biased of me. Admittedly all this prejustice and sweeping generalisations kinda hits a nerve with me. For all these so called "free-thinkers" it's pretty shallow.

I didnt once say what you believed is bad, neither did I mention grouping (that was kinda absurd scruff). I am only talking of the bible, and my personal experiences in light of it. And please, virtually every single translation is identical in getting the message across, should "Christians" choose not to consider certain rules, that does not change what is written in the bible...

MotherWolff said:
I wish I knew of a religion, or some kind of teaching, that didn't contain so many strict doctrines to follow as if to threaten and bribe me. I wonder what buhdduism and hinduism is like?

Or you could try studying the bible. All the rules are common sense anyway. Please, try getting a study with some Jehovah's Witnesses, in all seriousness what is the harm in trying it out?
 

Thelema

Well-known member
Or you could try studying the bible. All the rules are common sense anyway. Please said:
Jehovah's witnesses? Aren't they those Morman people that ride their bikes around annoying people? You gotta be pretty wacko to be a Morman...like Scientology kinda wacko. Sorry, I know thats really mean, but...come on.

Did you know that the Morman religion is actually racist? They also believe the Native Americans were white people that were cursed by God...my dad is Native American, fuck you
 

scruffpot

Well-known member
Doomed2Die said:
That was a figure of speech and you know it.
Maybe the whole concept of the bible was a figure of speech? That someone was so peed off with the way society was 2000 years ago, she/he wrote a book.

Doomed2Die said:
Uh huh, how biased of me. Admittedly all this prejustice and sweeping generalisations kinda hits a nerve with me. For all these so called "free-thinkers" it's pretty shallow.
Why is it pretty shallow, we can have an opinion if we want, we are not targeting or generalizing your version of bible, we have been talking about different concepts plus the whole concepts of having a belief and the problems, the contradictions and so forth. Also if we all believed the same then we wouldn't have an opinion, ass there is no one true religion or set of beliefs.

Doomed2Die said:
I didnt once say what you believed is bad, neither did I mention grouping (that was kinda absurd scruff). I am only talking of the bible, and my personal experiences in light of it. And please, virtually every single translation is identical in getting the message across, should "Christians" choose not to consider certain rules, that does not change what is written in the bible...
The bible has been changed and adapted and it depends what version you read depends on what the bible says.
Religion is about grouping, placing people in groups according to beliefs, tribalism. Giving each belief a name where everybody worships some sort of idol/s but in their own way, the same sort of concept of belonging to a football team. tribalism can been seen back as far as the Neanderthal stages, where there is a leader and everyone follows its the same as in packs of animals.

Doomed2Die said:
Or you could try studying the bible. All the rules are common sense anyway. Please, try getting a study with some Jehovah's Witnesses, in all seriousness what is the harm in trying it out?

There are some common sense in some of the rules of the bibles for example some of the 10 commandments, but isn't that common sense for a society to be based on? But then there are are some rules that are not common sense. But doesn't it say that
EZ 20:25 God says that he intentionally gave out bad laws. (This means that God-given laws or commandments are sometimes suspect.)

To be honest i'm not religious I understand totally the concepts of religion prayer beliefs structures different religions etc. I chose my own way in life to be what and who ever i want to be, i do not even believe in the concept of having a soul, when we are dead we are dead. its in my rights not to be classified in a belief structure, you cannot predict the future, you do not have path in life, that is why religious predictions have never been proven to happen. Being that i do not believe in anything i even see the concept of atheism is wrong as it gives a title to a non-belief leading to preconceptions.

So thats why I own the http://www.cultofrandom.com
 

scruffpot

Well-known member
Thelema said:
Did you know that the Morman religion is actually racist? They also believe the Native Americans were white people that were cursed by God..

There is racisim where ever we look never mind it in religion.
You could even look at extremists and the way that they think "we are not like them so we must be destroyed".
You could even go back to the christian missionaries who plunded America, India Africa the deepest jungles of most countries trying to spread the word of god, but killing just about everyone in the process, because they saw people who didn't believe were not civilized nations. - however today we know as educated citizens that is still wrong but there is a minority that do not.
Unfortunately and fortunately, (in some ways) we live in a democracy where we have the freedom to believe in what we want, say what we want - to an extent within laws. BUT unfortunately being we are in this climate some people use the concept of racism in their beliefs which is wrong because in religion/ the bible it says "We should love one another". People use racism in their belief structure to make sure they (as they see it) do not weaken out their link dilute the blood, that they pick a certain type of person and just breed with that, which is why in some religions inter-marital relations begin to happen = in breeding.
I suppose it could be worse we could all be brainwashed to one religion and have no say it what or what we believe in, which is why there is no one perfect religion.
To be honest one of the reasons why there has been a lot of spin offs from Christianity and that other religions have taken off over the last 100 years is because people have got bored with the mainstream version of Christianity, the teachings of the bible, church on Sunday, it being poured down our neck at school etc etc is why religion such as Jehovah witness has taken off (established in the early 1900), Scientology off the back of the 1960 space race sci-fi, the moons, other sects the rise in spirituality etc. they offer something slightly different then the mainstream. plus you have to look that humankind has got clever and has a fixation with power, therefore create you own religion.
 

Doomed2Die

Well-known member
Thelema said:
Jehovah's witnesses? Aren't they those Morman people that ride their bikes around annoying people? You gotta be pretty wacko to be a Morman...like Scientology kinda wacko. Sorry, I know thats really mean, but...come on.

Did you know that the Morman religion is actually racist? They also believe the Native Americans were white people that were cursed by God...my dad is Native American, fuck you

Lol wow... That was an interesting read. Thelema, JW's have nothing to do with Mormans and are in fact very multicultural.

Scruff, I study the bible. The versions dispite few differences, all have the same structure and same messages. And why on earth are you criticising me on enforcing beliefs when your doing it yourself? That's not discussion it's bickering, and that does not matter much since (I say yet again) im merely speaking in behalf of what the bible says.

scruffpot said:
To be honest one of the reasons why... with power, therefore create you own religion.

Different sects of Christianity have been around for a long long time, and pagan practices even longer. And well, yes JW's are relatively new. But should one be interested in the bible it's within scripture that the house of god will only become apparent in the last days (or words to that effect). I would post the thing, but im still looking for it.
 

Thelema

Well-known member
Doomed2Die said:
Thelema said:
Jehovah's witnesses? Aren't they those Morman people that ride their bikes around annoying people? You gotta be pretty wacko to be a Morman...like Scientology kinda wacko. Sorry, I know thats really mean, but...come on.

Did you know that the Morman religion is actually racist? They also believe the Native Americans were white people that were cursed by God...my dad is Native American, fuck you

Lol wow... That was an interesting read. Thelema, JW's have nothing to do with Mormans and are in fact very multicultural.

Scruff, I study the bible. The versions dispite few differences, all have the same structure and same messages. And why on earth are you criticising me on enforcing beliefs when your doing it yourself? That's not discussion it's bickering, and that does not matter much since (I say yet again) im merely speaking in behalf of what the bible says.

scruffpot said:
To be honest one of the reasons why... with power, therefore create you own religion.

Different sects of Christianity have been around for a long long time, and pagan practices even longer. And well, yes JW's are relatively new. But should one be interested in the bible it's within scripture that the house of god will only become apparent in the last days (or words to that effect). I would post the thing, but im still looking for it.

Wow I was wrong, they aren't Mormans....
 

Thelema

Well-known member
According to Jehovah's Witness' theology, God is a single person, not a Trinity, who does not know all things and is not everywhere. He first created Michael the Archangel through whom He created all "other things," including the universe, the earth, Adam and Eve, etc. This creative work took God 42,000 years. At one point, The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society taught that God ruled the universe from somewhere in the Pleiades star system. They have since modified this to say that the "Pleiades can no longer be considered the center of the universe and it would be unwise for us to try to fix God's throne as being at a particular spot in the universe."1 Such changes and even contradictions in teaching are frequent in the Watchtower organization and when a doctrine changes, they tell their followers that the light of truth is getting brighter.
After Adam sinned, the paradise which God had created for them, was ruined. So, God instituted a system of redemption which was revealed in the Bible and would ultimately lead to the crucifixion of Jesus the messiah. But, in the meantime, God needed to have a visible, theocratic organization on earth to accurately represent Him. Throughout history, this true organization had a remnant of faithful Jehovah's Witnesses (Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, etc.) but it wasn't until the late 1800's that Charles Taze Russell formerly began what is now known as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society which is run out of Brooklyn, New York. This organization claims to be the only true channel of God's truth on earth today and that it alone can properly interpret God's word since it is the angel directed, prophet of God on earth.
When it came time for the savior to be born, Michael the Archangel became a human, in the form of Jesus. Jesus grew and kept all the laws of God and never sinned. Finally, when Jesus died, it was not on a cross, but on a torture stake, where he bore the sins of mankind -- but this did not include Adam's sins. Jesus rose from the dead as a spirit, not physically (his body was dissolved and taken by God) and during his visitations to people on earth, he manifested a temporary physical body for them to see and touch. Thus began the true Christian church of Jehovah's followers.
Throughout history there have been faithful Jehovah's witnesses who have managed to keep The Truth in spite of the "demonic" doctrine of Trinitarianism that has permeated the Christian church in "Christendom." Christendom is filled with pastors who are antichrists, in churches run by Satan, and who support the earthly governments which are all of the devil. In other words, all of Christianity is false and only the Jehovah's Witness "theocratic" organization lead by several men in Brooklyn, New York, is true.
In the late 1800's, a young man of 18 years, by the name of Charles Taze Russell, organized a Bible class in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. In 1879 he sought to popularize his ideas on doctrine so he co-published The Herald of the Morning magazine with its founder, N. H. Barbour and by 1884 Russell controlled the publication and renamed it The Watchtower Announcing Jehovah's Kingdom, and founded Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society (now known as the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society). Russell served as the teacher and guide for the organization which taught that Jesus returned invisibly in 1914 and is now reigning in heaven. When Jesus finally returns physical to earth, which will happen at the time of the Battle of Armageddon, He will set up his earthly 1000 year kingdom. During this 1000 year period, people will be resurrected and have a second chance to receive eternal salvation by following the principles of Jehovah's Organization on earth known as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. After the millennium, those who reject God and His organization will be annihilated; that is, they will cease to exist. The rest of the Jehovah's Witness who have faithfully followed God's organization on earth will be saved from eternal annihilation and reside forever on Paradise earth. Heaven, however, is a place for a special group of 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses -- the only ones who are "born again" and who alone are allowed to take communion in their annual communion service. These are the ones who have "immortal life," all other Witnesses have "everlasting life." Those with immortal life do not have resurrected bodies. They have "spirit bodies." Those on Paradise Earth have everlasting life and consists of a resurrected body that must be maintained through eating, rest, etc.
When you study with the Jehovah's Witness, you agree to attend five meetings a week where you are taught from Watchtower literature. You cannot be baptized until you have studied their material for at least six months and have answered numerous questions before a panel of elders. Men are not supposed have long hair or wear beards and women are to dress in modest apparel. They refuse to vote, salute the flag, sing the "Star Spangled Banner, celebrate birthdays or Christmas, won't take blood transfusions, and they can't join the armed forces. A schedule of door-to-door canvassing is required where you distribute the Watchtower literature, acquire donations, and forward all monies to the headquarters in Brooklyn, New York.
If you ever leave the Jehovah's Witness organization, you are considered an apostate and are to be shunned.

http://www.carm.org/jw/nutshell.htm

(this site was the first I clicked on and it turns out its some bs Christian site and doesn't like the Witnesses, so take what it says as biased)
 

scruffpot

Well-known member
Doomed2Die said:
Scruff, I study the bible. The versions dispite few differences, all have the same structure and same messages. And why on earth are you criticising me on enforcing beliefs when your doing it yourself? That's not discussion it's bickering, and that does not matter much since (I say yet again) im merely speaking in behalf of what the bible says.


You study your version of the bible or other bibles? As there is not one true version. And there are big differences in the bible depending which religion
http://www.helium.cm/items/656201-differences-between-the-major-religions
(I say yet again)As yuou may have read or not in my posts I do not have a belief, so i cannot be enforcing. To say not having a belief is a belief in its self is a weak argument.
Also no-one should be allowed enforce their beliefs on anyone, that is the whole point about free will to believe or not in what you want. i
 

Doomed2Die

Well-known member
Thelema said:
According to Jehovah's Witness' theology, God is a single person, not a Trinity, who does not know all things

I read up to that, that's(in bold) an outright lie and not their belief. But thanks for the disclaimer at the bottom. The persecution of JW's has been a long running thing, especially from other religions.

Scruffpot this
scruffpot said:
As there is not one true version.
is what I mean by enforcing ect. When I say similar I'm criticised as it is opinion spoken out as canon, which quite rightly is not fair. And while I do not study other versions per say, I have compared scriptures to and from the version I use and find it very nearly identical in what is written. Really, the bibles are not so different at all, it is the religion(s) and how they interpret it.
 

scruffpot

Well-known member
Doomed2Die said:
is what I mean by enforcing ect. When I say similar I'm criticised as it is opinion spoken out as canon, which quite rightly is not fair. And while I do not study other versions per say, I have compared scriptures to and from the version I use and find it very nearly identical in what is written. Really, the bibles are not so different at all, it is the religion(s) and how they interpret it.

Ok which scriptures and what versions have you compared it to then?
which publications? where they all through the Watchtower presses?
What Im trying to say is that certain groups of religions only make available certain types of print to compare against but they doctor the scripts themselves so you see what they want you to. - im not accusing the JW or watchtower of this, I am curious to know what scriptures which versions of the presses you compared the bibles to and from.

I'm sorry you are speaking a load of rubbish by saying that i am enforcing my beliefs by saying that "there is no one true version of the bible"". because there is a variety of different interpretations. "Very nearly identical" still means that there is a difference. And yes i have read a lot of different bibles to know this myself.
 

Doomed2Die

Well-known member

It is still the same book, the differences are translation and indeed intentional at times but even so, as I said, they are small (eg. Name of God, differing objects due to translation accuracy, various tweaks that are so minute it means nothing). Yes, I do use watchtower material to assist in learning and understanding the bible, but that does not mean I cannot or have not used other sources. As for the specific scriputes... they are many, and I cannot say one line as an example, but I know through experience and simply hearing of others that all bibles (besides the obvious radical) contain the same prinicples, story and core of the original scripts, something that I add is not even upheld by the majority of Christian religions.

And considering interpretation, and the way it is abused... theres no suprise it can be seen as different. As for theres 'no true way of reading the bible', that really makes no sense at all.

Katex88x said:
I think you should stop

Probally, this is so mind boggling tiring. It's not really a discussion, since im wrong by default apparently, or hopelessly blinded by some belief *sigh*.
 

gobbledegook

Well-known member
You should have faith in whatever you do and do what makes you happy.

Prescious said:
Maybe try to do some positive thinkings or something.

Perhaps we should be doing this where it can apply to everybody and stop discussing deep down personal beliefs. If you think that god can help then that's great but everyone has their own views on everything in life...there is no time to be taking this question out of context. :roll:
 

Thelema

Well-known member
scruffpot said:
Doomed2Die said:
is what I mean by enforcing ect. When I say similar I'm criticised as it is opinion spoken out as canon, which quite rightly is not fair. And while I do not study other versions per say, I have compared scriptures to and from the version I use and find it very nearly identical in what is written. Really, the bibles are not so different at all, it is the religion(s) and how they interpret it.

Ok which scriptures and what versions have you compared it to then?
which publications? where they all through the Watchtower presses?
What Im trying to say is that certain groups of religions only make available certain types of print to compare against but they doctor the scripts themselves so you see what they want you to. - im not accusing the JW or watchtower of this, I am curious to know what scriptures which versions of the presses you compared the bibles to and from.

I'm sorry you are speaking a load of rubbish by saying that i am enforcing my beliefs by saying that "there is no one true version of the bible"". because there is a variety of different interpretations. "Very nearly identical" still means that there is a difference. And yes i have read a lot of different bibles to know this myself.

I think you could make the argument that since the books in the Bible were written decades or even centuries after the things are supposed to happen, even the earliest versions contained flaws from just bad memory and being passed down in stories
 
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