God and Hell

[Anonymous]

How many of you believe in God? How do you think that God feels about you? Are you religious? What do you think about the Bible? How many of you believe that certain people will go to hell after this life?

I'm trying to get a sense of the relationship between SA and spiritual attitudes.

As for me, I used to be a fundamentalist Christian who believed that God loved me but disapproved of me and was disappointed by my incompetence and inadequacy. I used to believe that God really couldn't tolerate me and would prefer to torture me in hell for eternity, but for the fact that I was redeemed by Jesus. I thought that there were a certain other class of people who were not saved because they did not believe in Jesus and dedicate their lives to him, and that those people were going to be sent to hell after this life.

Now, I am not a Christian, and not religious, but consider myself to be spiritual. I believe in God, but I believe that he admires and respects me, and that he delights in me and cherishes me. He is proud of me and what I do, even when I am being bad, and am not being good. I believe that God created us and will draw us all back to him after this life is over. Nobody will go to hell. I believe that Jesus who was God, came to earth to join us in our suffering and to take away our fear and to give us freedom from death.

I regard Christianity as a man-made religion. I believe that the Bible is a good start for thinking about God, but is not the first and last word on anything. There are tons of Bible verses that need to be crossed out of the text. It was written by men, just like me.

I found out that a belief that we are "sinners in the hands of an angry god" is a perversion of the faith of Jesus who said: "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw ALL men unto me."

Christian Universalism is my approach, but I don't see it as a religion, more as a spiritual attitude.

 

[Crimefish]

I am quite a spiritual person, but my feelings (and they are feelings and not beliefs) are very vague. I feel like there is some benevolent force watching over us and that there is more to things than the physical world we see. I feel that there is life (or some existence) after death. I try to be a good person and I have all the morals of a religious person, even though I chose them myself.
I don't worship a god though. But if He exists, I think He would be okay with that. At least, I hope so, because I don't want the most powerful thing in the universe to be that selective. I'm good; what more can you ask?

 

[nezzy]

i've had this argument on here months ago, so i won't do it again.

Needless to say i don't believe in any higher power.
And i think religion is a tool of the power hungry to control the masses.
Nuff said.

Nez

 

[Remus]

Though I'm not religious I respect your veiws Guru Guy and think it would be nice to be adopted by more christians.

 

[Anonymous]

i am a catholic and believe in god but i dont follow the bible strictly and i think there are a lot of things wrong with the church. But the way i see it, if there is no heaven, no god (or whatever u want to call it) what is the point of living a good life and being a good person. There has to be something else afterwards or we would all be kiliing each other now. no offence to anyone but from my experience those who criticise religion are those who know little about it and fear it because they do not believe in anything. i am not a strict religious person but being brought up as a catholic has made me a more accepting and caring person. In my school there was a sense of community and love and i always felt happy and safe and welcome. People looked out for each other and there was always someone to go to, someone who cared about you. I think that it's easier to understand and accept other people being brought up a catholic . There are so many positive messages and faith really can give you something to live for. It makes me angry when people make comments saying all religions are a tool to control people. It just shows that they probably have empty lives and are angry at people who live for something. The most important thing is not all the politics crap of religion but the most important messages . to love

 

[sky]

I'd like to believe in God, I just don't at the moment.

But the way i see it, if there is no heaven, no god (or whatever u want to call it) what is the point of living a good life and being a good person.

The point of being "good" is just to do it. Because it's the way I'd want to be treated. Do you only do the "right" thing because you expect a reward for doing it? What if [insert hyptothetical situation where someone had to save someone else's life here and there was no one else around to do it]? Would I save the person only if I'd get something out of it? No! I would save them because it's right. It's what I'd want someone to do for me. Only doing good things for a reward, be it candy, money, or eternal life isn't being a "good person" in my book. Rewards ARE nice, but generally "good" people don't have to be bribed.

 

[Anonymous]

i see where ur coming from but i didnt mean it like that. people who go out and rob people dont give a shit ( a lot not all)there are people who do bad things and dont feel bad. what im saying is i believe there has to be something , some consequence for being a bad person, not just inner turmoil which not all peopl get. what is the point of us being alive if there is nothing beyond this life. ?

 

[Henry]

Oh ya a topic I am interseted in! Yes I believe in God, an all knowing, all seeing God. I however dont really believe in Hell. I actually think every goes to heaven. Ya that sounds horrible but once you think about it awhile it makes sense. Look at it like this: according to the Christian God(or jewish god) Hitler would burn in hell for eternaty. Now if he was tortured for every second the people he hurt suffered that would be like a billion years or so. Thats still not forever. Thats just a tiny, small bit. So no I dont think anyone deserves hell for eternity. And if you consider all his victims went to heaven, it just makes sense to me. Call me crazy, a heretic, whatever but thats what I believe. I also believe the Bible was ancient man's attempt to know God, so it was written as such.

 

[Anonymous]

I tend to agree with you, Henry.

I pity the Christian God. He is so small and weak and insecure. He is so easily offended and easily annoyed and made uncomfortable. It's like he has an anxiety disorder - a contamination phobia. Except, he is made anxious by the children that he produces. The Christian God is like a mother who gives birth to a baby, but then sets it in the dumpster because it is covered with germs, it poops and pees, and screams. Such a mother needs to get on an anti-anxiety med, and given remedial therapy to teach her to love and cherish the crying and helpless baby in her arms. If the mother will not recover from her anthrophobia, then at some point, when the baby gets older, the baby must stop seeking the mother's unavailing approval and must start to pity the loony woman. Even a bad baby has human dignity and rightly expects not to be ill-treated by another.

I do understand what love is, and that is one of the reasons I can never again be a Christian. Love is not murdering your son to appease your own vanity. Love is not hatred or wrath, consigning billions of people to eternal torture because they have offended your ego or disobeyed your rules. Love is not disapproving of people because they do things your way. Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given.

I am not a Christian. And when I die, I ask that the true Lord God will have mercy on me, as I would have mercy on him, if I were Lord God and he were me. But, if it happens to be the case that I am more merciful then he is (me being a pretty mean person sometimes), but that he has more raw power then me, then we are all already in hell and will be forever.

But the Christian god is a man-made god, made in the image of small-hearted, anxious and insecure judges -- made in the image of people who _do_ have contamination phobias and inflated and sensitive egos.

The real God is nothing like this.

 

[Parttimer]

For the record, I don't believe in God, never have. And i've never killed anyone, who woulda thunk it?

 

[Kaya]

I was brought up as an atheist, and since then have looked into a lot of "alternative" spiritual beliefs. Most religion is pretty crap (IMHO).
I think that Buddhism is the only organised religion that makes sense (mostly, and are willing to admit the not so believeable stuff), I find alot of clarity in tarot cards, and I love Discordianism. I also subscribe to Camus' philosophical theories of Absurdism, but I'm not sure if that is really a religion (I'm sure it is somewhere in the world, or perhaps a CULT!! 8O )

I have read some stuff about the guilt principles of the catholic church and their contribution to mental illness, and I know that many people with mental illness believe they are, or equate to, religious figures, but I have never heard of SP being related to religion.

 

[Anonymous]

My new universalist, non-Calvinist, non-Christian vision:

I don't need to be punished for my sins, I need to be healed of my sin-sickness. God will not disapprove of anybody by sentencing them to an eternity in hell, but God totally disapproves of sin and will totally punish it when this life is over. My task now is to punish sin as a merciful and just God will do. My task is to be holy as God is holy -- to totally punish sin and to totally approve of humans, and thereby to work restoration, reconciliation, and redemption everywhere.

This idea of a retributive God is a holdover from superstition and Molech worship -- demanding sacrifices of children to appease the God's wrath. Men are retributive, God isn't. The retributivist God, angry at men for their humanity and their faults, their confusion and their blindness, is a god made in the image of man.

God's holiness, righteousness, justice, grace, and mercy are all expressed to humanity in the same way -- by reconciling to God, through Christ, all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross. Col. 1:20.

I'm on a mission to punish sin in the most brutal, harsh, and just way -- viz. to work reconciliation, promote human good, and redeem all things for God. There might be a remedial hell -- there will be hell enough for a merciful and just God to redeem all men to himself.

Jesus was not an atoning sacrifice, but was God, joining us in our suffering, and in his death and resurrection, totally obliterating death for all humanity.

Disapproval of people, qua people, is irrational. Disapproval of sinful behaviors is rational. God approves of Hitler, Stalin, indeed delights in them.

Put your burden on Jesus's back -- he has an intense hatred of sin and will punish it severely.

 

[blank]

im totaly with nezzy on this i just dont need to go there again...X

Wait a minute : You say you agree with nezzy ( who appears to NOT believe in god ) yet you have a signature line that says jesus loves you.

Are you as confused as I think you are ?


Why are so many ex-fishnuts going cristian ? The only reason I can think of is that it is something we are use to --- to continue being brainwashed.
A comfort zone perhaps ?

As for all those who believe that jesus is god, have you ever read some of the stuff in Deuteronemy and realized that if jesus is god then that would mean that he gave the commandments to do some of the crazy stuff there ?
If the god of the bible were a human, that person would be considered evil. But since god is supposed to be somehow exempt from our judgement, we are just to accept the god on 'blind faith' and not ask the questions that don't make sense.

If there is a god, then I hate it.

 

[Anonymous]

do u also hate Tlaloc the aztec rain god?
i mean, he has done nothing to you but give you rains.

 

[Anonymous]

no offence too religious people but theres no evidence of god of any sort stop wasting your time.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeah, it sort of seems silly to be obsessing about this matter. There may or may not be a God, but if there is, he is probably a good God and will treat us all with mercy in the end. What did Kierkegaard say? "To be known directly is the characteristic mark of an idol." If someone says that he knows God and you don't -- run!

 

[GettingThere]

I was not going to touch this one but then I thought, "what the hell" [pardon the pun]

I will give you something to consider on two of these matters; 1. the nature of hell, and 2. the nature of the "sacrifice" of Jesus.

1. People think of heaven and hell as mere places of abode without considering their real nature. If you reflect upon the laws of God you will realise that they are the rules for love, peace and harmony. If we abide by these rules in accordance with God's will then we become heavenly in nature as a preparation for living in heaven. But if we choose - of our own free will - to live in ways contrary to these rules then we become hellish in nature and, through our own efforts, become increasingly prepared for hell. Hell is a place devoid of love, friendship, mercy and compassion, and instead full of complete selfishness manifested as hate, envy, fighting, etc.

The torment of hell being that of living in such a world and effectively, one self-imposed and chosen by the individual. Conversely heaven being the complete opposite is a place of love, peace and help for one another and the joy that comes with living in this way.

I am saying that this world lies between heaven and hell and in our God-given free will we become prepared for an eternity based upon our natures in accordance with our choses.

2. The bible states that Jesus was God Himself (Emanuel - "God with us") who came into the world taking on heriditary sin so that He could overcome it, which He did. In so doing He created a path for us to follow. The notion of a sacrificial lamb for sacrifice's sake only (to appease God's ego), is bizarre to say the least and totally misguided.

These are matters of personal opinion and I totally respect individuals rights to disagree.

 

[Anonymous]

Have any of you compared religion to a superstitious chain letter?

Both warn of dire consequences for those recipients who do not forward the message to others.

Imagine if you got a letter in the mail that said: "Do you know where you would go if you died tonight?" And then further said: "You will be eternally separated from God, in Hell... the Lake of Fire, where you will live in hopeless desperation and misery forever and ever and ever!!!"

UNLESS,

You send this letter on to nine of your friends! And tell them you are giving it to them because you "love" them!!!

Then go to church every Sunday morning to read the terrifying chain letter all over again!!! FUN!

http://my.homewithgod.com/mkcathy/inspirational/salvation.html

The only difference between religion and a superstitious chain letter, is that the chain letter only requires you to spend a few dollars on stamps and a few minutes of your time, while religion requires you to give the church 10% of your money, and makes you commit enormous amounts of time and money to "following God's rules": Don't masturbate, don't have sex, don't french kiss, don't fondle your friend.

(Too bad you will never discover if the threat of consequences is real or fake until you are dead and it's too late to let anyone on earth know.)

This is the advice given to people who receive chain letters:

"The best thing to do with a chain letter is to throw it away rather than send it to others."

http://www.hoax-slayer.com/ghost-under-bed.html

What think ye?

 

[Cutegal]

I'm not religious but its upsetting to see some peoples faiths torn apart in some of the more angry posts in here.

what have these people ever done to you to get such contempt?

 

[GettingThere]

(Too bad you will never discover if the threat of consequences is real or fake until you are dead and it's too late to let anyone on earth know.)

You don't have to die to experience the benefits my friend.