cm123
Well-known member
International Hyperhidrosis Society: Hyperhidrosis Treatment: Systemic Medication
Calcium is a recurrent word I am hearing in relation to HH. Has anyone tried this medicine?
Diltiazem in familial primary hyperhidrosis
- Thread starter cm123
- Start date
International Hyperhidrosis Society: Hyperhidrosis Treatment: Systemic Medication
Calcium is a recurrent word I am hearing in relation to HH. Has anyone tried this medicine?
Rexus
Well-known member
I don't know where the other thread about calcium blockers disappeared that's weird. Anyway i'm taking plendil 5 mg it's a calcium blocker do you think it'll take a while to take effect? I took it around 5 hours ago and so far nothing? Do I need to take it for a while? How long? Can I up the dose? I'm really hoping this works as it has much less annoying sides than glyco. I hope...
cm123
Well-known member
Hey, I think I am going to get script for this as well and test it out. Thanks for renewing my interest on it. This summer heat has made my sweating extra miserable... Below are some clippings i took from the article that might help you.
____________________________
diltiazem, was initiated;
it was administered every six hours for three days. On the
first day of treatment, each dose of diltiazem was 30 mg; on
the final two days, each dose was 60 mg. Sweat testing was
done in the morning, afternoon, and evening of the first
two days and in the morning and afternoon of the third
day. Electrocardiograms were obtained daily during this
last three-day period.
Diltiazem produced excellent results. The mean
postdose sweat readings performed over the threeday
test period was 0.222 g, a marked and constant
decrease from baseline values. The effect of the
medication was prolonged, eventually affecting the
predose readings and lowering the SWs progressive¬
ly with increasing length of time on the drug. The
mean SW over the three day period for all readings
was 0.263 g. The mean SW for each day on diltiazem
was as follows: day 1, 0.302 g; day 2, 0.285 g; and day
3, 0.176 g. By day 3, the average SW was essentially
the same as the control mean SW.
Calcium flux plays a central and essential role in
the stimulation of active sweat secretion.12 Influx of
calcium from the extracellular compartment to the
intracellular compartment has been shown by Sato12
to be required for eccrine gland secretion to occur.
Calcium-channel blockers act selectively by inhibit¬
ing calcium influx through the cell membrane.242'
These facts suggested the possible usefulness of
calcium-channel blockers in hyperhidrosis.
________________________________________
Offical Medical Article: (A Great Read!)
http://www.speedshare.org/download.php?id=6ACD4B2B11
____________________________
diltiazem, was initiated;
it was administered every six hours for three days. On the
first day of treatment, each dose of diltiazem was 30 mg; on
the final two days, each dose was 60 mg. Sweat testing was
done in the morning, afternoon, and evening of the first
two days and in the morning and afternoon of the third
day. Electrocardiograms were obtained daily during this
last three-day period.
Diltiazem produced excellent results. The mean
postdose sweat readings performed over the threeday
test period was 0.222 g, a marked and constant
decrease from baseline values. The effect of the
medication was prolonged, eventually affecting the
predose readings and lowering the SWs progressive¬
ly with increasing length of time on the drug. The
mean SW over the three day period for all readings
was 0.263 g. The mean SW for each day on diltiazem
was as follows: day 1, 0.302 g; day 2, 0.285 g; and day
3, 0.176 g. By day 3, the average SW was essentially
the same as the control mean SW.
Calcium flux plays a central and essential role in
the stimulation of active sweat secretion.12 Influx of
calcium from the extracellular compartment to the
intracellular compartment has been shown by Sato12
to be required for eccrine gland secretion to occur.
Calcium-channel blockers act selectively by inhibit¬
ing calcium influx through the cell membrane.242'
These facts suggested the possible usefulness of
calcium-channel blockers in hyperhidrosis.
________________________________________
Offical Medical Article: (A Great Read!)
http://www.speedshare.org/download.php?id=6ACD4B2B11
Last edited:
hyperxtechie
Active member
Imma get a prescription for this & try this out as well. Will keep ya'll updated. Thanks!
cm123
Well-known member
Rexus, I think the last CC Blocker you were on was not a high enough dosage. For Diltiazem at least you should take 60mg 3 times daily (about every 6 hours). I do know they make Diltiazem in an extended release pill so that you only have to take once, but I think it is better to first try the normal pill used in the study.
Let me know how everyone's results go. I am currently out of town so I will be trying this medicine myself around June 30th.
Let me know how everyone's results go. I am currently out of town so I will be trying this medicine myself around June 30th.
hyperxtechie
Active member
My Primary Doctor was scared to prescribe it to me (Diltiazem). Saying it's for high blood pressure, I should have printed out that study and showed it to her. When I mentioned it, she was asking a bunch of questions like "was it a controlled study, etc". So she told me to see the dermatologist. As soon as I get it, I'll update on the results.
Jezza
Well-known member
Hey,
I haven't tried this one. I know tap water iontophoresis affects the calcium gradient in skin. The negative and positive poles have different effects, and as we know the positive pole does the damage...I found that interesting.
Check it out:
Journal of Investigative Dermatology - Iontophoresis and Sonophoresis Stimulate Epidermal Cytokine Expression at Energies That Do Not Provoke a Barrier Abnormality: Lamellar Body Secretion and Cytokine Expression Are Linked to Altered Epidermal Calci
And also, calcium with a link to allergens:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18305573
I haven't tried this one. I know tap water iontophoresis affects the calcium gradient in skin. The negative and positive poles have different effects, and as we know the positive pole does the damage...I found that interesting.
Check it out:
Journal of Investigative Dermatology - Iontophoresis and Sonophoresis Stimulate Epidermal Cytokine Expression at Energies That Do Not Provoke a Barrier Abnormality: Lamellar Body Secretion and Cytokine Expression Are Linked to Altered Epidermal Calci
And also, calcium with a link to allergens:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18305573
Last edited:
cm123
Well-known member
Yes, sadly most physicians are not familiar with HH or try more "alternative solutions". I recommend that you print out the full study found here:
SpeedShare - Download Emotional Eccrine Sweating.pdf
As well as this webpage:
International Hyperhidrosis Society: Hyperhidrosis Treatment: Systemic Medication
This website if from the Inernational HH Society and they recognize that Diltiazem is a potential cure for those suffering from HH.
Please let us know how the medicine works. I will be getting it once I am back in town.
Abnormal calcium ion distribution is definitely something that catches my eyes. Also, From this study we conclude that the change of epidermal calcium may be a direct signal for inducing the expression of epidermal cytokines in vivo.
Given that:
"Cytokines (hormone-like polypeptide mediators) play a major role in inflammatory and immunoregulatory responses. Skin, and particularly keratinocytes in the skin, represent a potent source for many cytokines, including interleukins 1, 6, 8, and the hemopoietic colony stimulating factors. Cytokines initiate their biologic action by interacting with target cells bearing cytokine receptors and then initiating a cascade of cellular interactions. Certain inflammatory skin diseases have been associated with overproduction of cytokines, alteration in cytokine receptors, or dysregulation of cytokines. While data is still quite preliminary, it is likely that cytokines contribute to the pathogenesis of many inflammatory skin diseases."
Makes me wonder if the improper of Cytokines on the skin could be the cause of HH. However, I am not a doctor and much of this is getting very technical it might be worthwhile to show this information to some people at the International HH Society or your local doctor/researcher.
However, in the meantime lets try to focus on investigating Diltiazem as a cure. It certainly has less side effects than glyco which in my opinion is more viable solution. Personally, I can not wait to try it. I also encourage as many people on here as possible to try it so that we can collect information and input and investigate further effectiveness.
cm123
Well-known member
You need to take 60mg every 6 hours NOT 5 or 15mg!
cm123
Well-known member
I can help summarize the article for you. There was a family which was suffering from HH. The mother and child where taken to a hospital where several medicines were tried for the treatment of HH. Everyday the amount of sweat was measured. When taking Dilitiazem eventuallytheir sweating was brought down to the levels of a normal person.
Guys I'm not a scientist but I have a question. I have an idea about this drug blocking the calcium channel intake. We don't know how ionto works, can this drug give us a lead to find how ionto works. Since this drug blocks the calcium ions, and the positive pole of the ionto is more effective, is there a correlation between these two. Is it possible that the positive pole of the ionto neutralizing the calcium in the sweat glands? I wonder using this drug in the ionto water makes ionto more effective, unless the drug itself does not change it's chemical properties when mixed with tap water.
Thanks for posting the great article, CM123. I've ordered a small dose of diltiazem from a site not requiring a prescription and will give it a sample over a week to figure out if I want to take this frequently. If I'm happy with it, I will ask my doc to prescribe long term. I'm bypassing him initially because he thinks I'm a relentless idiot who needs to just 'accept' having hyperhidrosis and carry tissues around to wipe it away, rather than keep trying to dig to the root of the problem and find an answer.
Will report back once I have info.
Will report back once I have info.
Rexus
Well-known member
Ok I just got some. I'm afraid to go on it however what if it affect blood pressure and heart muscle? I'm not sure what to do. And three or four pills a day? As in should I take one before bed? It would be better if not. One at wake up, one in 6 hrs, one in 12 hrs--three. I'm gonna go on 30 mg for a few days to see how that goes, if I feel there might be good results and little side effects then I'll up the dose. Thanks for this post and I'll inform you guys back. And please tell us if anyone had success with this!
cm123
Well-known member
Sorry for the late replies.
I will search for some medical studies on Propranolol and Beta Blockers and post my results on the forum. From my personal experience they do not help so well and make me extremely tired. Though, they are good for the temporary relief of anxiety, if that is what causes your HH.....
It is certainly possible to take this pill via Ionto. Ionto is a medically approved method to take medicine. It may or not increase effectiveness by targeting these areas. It is something we all can test after achieving results orally.
Regarding calcium and sweating refer to Jezza's post here:
http://www.socialphobiaworld.com/diltiazem-in-familial-primary-hyperhidrosis-18653/#post310119
Perfectly Understandable. I feel the same way. In addition I must pay $40.00 just to see him. Usually though when I present a medical study he will write the prescription. I look forward to hearing your results.
On the first day take 30mg 3 times. So at Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner. Then on the next two days take 60mg 3 times a day at Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner.
Assuming you sleep 6 hours it should work out so that you are not taking it right before bed but after every meal. Diltiazem can be taken with or without food but if it causes an upset stomach then take it with food.
If after the 3rd day you notice no results you might want to try 60mg every 6 hours.
If you have the time, please post after each day how you feel and any results you notice!
I will search for some medical studies on Propranolol and Beta Blockers and post my results on the forum. From my personal experience they do not help so well and make me extremely tired. Though, they are good for the temporary relief of anxiety, if that is what causes your HH.....
It is certainly possible to take this pill via Ionto. Ionto is a medically approved method to take medicine. It may or not increase effectiveness by targeting these areas. It is something we all can test after achieving results orally.
Regarding calcium and sweating refer to Jezza's post here:
http://www.socialphobiaworld.com/diltiazem-in-familial-primary-hyperhidrosis-18653/#post310119
Perfectly Understandable. I feel the same way. In addition I must pay $40.00 just to see him. Usually though when I present a medical study he will write the prescription. I look forward to hearing your results.
On the first day take 30mg 3 times. So at Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner. Then on the next two days take 60mg 3 times a day at Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner.
Assuming you sleep 6 hours it should work out so that you are not taking it right before bed but after every meal. Diltiazem can be taken with or without food but if it causes an upset stomach then take it with food.
If after the 3rd day you notice no results you might want to try 60mg every 6 hours.
If you have the time, please post after each day how you feel and any results you notice!